Q and A with a Baptist Seminary soon-to-be graduate

by Terry 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    He: "Who or what is your idea of god?"

    Me: "At one time I could speak confidently that I KNEW within a moral certainty exactly who god was, his Name and his purpose. Now, I have to laugh at my idiotic and egotistical self-deception! Any god that I--a mortal creature--could describe and know would always be unworthy of worship and far removed from reality. You know why? Because such a god would be more ME and my imagination. I'm ignorant. I don't and can't KNOW god. Anybody who tells me that they DO is somebody I view with caution. The way you'd treat a person who has been kidnapped and probed by aliens in a UFO."

    He: "For a guy with no beliefs you have very strong beliefs!"

    Me: "You and I don't use language the same way, I'm afraid. It makes accuracy of communication almost impossible."

    He: "Why do you say that?"

    Me: "Because I live in a Post-Enlightenment world described by science with measurements and descriptions that are testable. You, as a Seminary student, are immersed in a Pre-Enlightenment world described by metaphor utterly elusive to testing except as an interpretation of an emotion."

    He: "So you are alone in the Universe without direction, then. Doesn't that frighten you?"

    Me: " I came through my mother's birth canal without a roadmap or a clue. Same as you, I suspect. On the one hand, Science had given us medicine, technology, space travel, triple-bypass surgery and antibiotics while religion has given us talking snakes and donkeys, fluttering angels and malevolent devils. Which is closer to reality and progress and health and well-being?"

    He: "But, we all die."

    Me: "Well said! The religious person does die. No better or worse than the infidel."

    He: "But, afterward the judgment!"

    Me: "Afterward, the funeral! Remember Jason, Muslims have the 42 virgins and Mormons have their own planet and Jehovah's Witnesses have a Paradise Earth according to belief--not according to reality. We can test a dead body for life. We can't test a belief; we can only assert it."

    He: "We have the promises of the bible."

    Me: "And the Koran and the Vedas, and the returning...returning...almost here....Jesus as well. I once had a friend who promised to split his Lottery winnings with me! You'll notice I did not drive up in a limousine!"

    He: "Those Jehovah Witnesses really did a number on you, didn't they?"

    Me: "I was the one who jumped in to the frying pan. I did it to myself."

    He: "Why?"

    Me: "Because I was a believer before I was a skeptic who tests belief. I was a person of Faith rather than a person of due diligence. I wanted pie in the sky bye and bye rather than a life of three score and ten and then a cemetery plot. It is called gullibility and greed for more than there really is. I was a glutton who could stuff a tasty promise in my gut and ask for whipped cream!"

    He: "I've never heard anything like this before. You're a strange man. I don't mean to be insulting."

    Me: "I'm non-threatening and have no agenda to carry out. I won't be spreading any false doctrines to young college students or instructing others to put whim and willy-nilly ahead of a reasonable skeptical inquiry, that's for sure."

    He: "And how do you know for sure if you are right or not?"

    Me: "The easiest test there is. I look at my own life. We need to be able to spot a phony even if he is staring back at us from our mirror! When I was a bible thumping, door knocking Jehovah's Witness I never improved anybody's life for even five minutes. I just parroted what I was told. It was a job like cleaning the bathroom. I was so busy wallowing in all that "Truth" I forgot to be real. Telling somebody something that isn't true---even if it is beautiful--is a terrible and cruel attempt at making the world a better place. I'd rather mind my own business when it comes to certainty and absolutes."

    He: "Well....food for thought. I enjoyed talking with you. I have to go now."

  • designs
    designs

    That conversation will roll around in his head for quite awhile.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Ummm, I dunno. I doubt it. His body language and facial expression and manner of delivery gave me an impression. My impression was

    that he was examining a life form unknown to him. (Me.) I think he felt sorry for me. He couldn't wait to get out of there:)

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Still all and all a fine demonstration on how to make important points by sharing who we used to be and how we fooled ourselves.

  • sarahsmile
    sarahsmile

    I sometimes attend what the call city church. I go to different churches because the JWs teachings. Anyhow,I seemed to return to this city church. Most the people who attend do not know it is a Baptist. You can look them up. New Heights 101.

    The music a bit modern and songs hard but a big reason I go is for the music. They have a full band or two. Sing praises to God.

    The sermons for the most part are good. Found a few errors here and there but who cares

    Here is how I use to think I think it stems from JWs, First I would not go back to any church that taught a strange messeage. Reminds me of one pastor I got in his face and told him that he lied to his entire congregation. Had example and the example he presented as truth but was lies. Ok I will share:

    121 lives died on a sinking boat. The Christians knew they were going to heaven so they threw out their life jackets to the unsaved. Drowning people who did not here the gospel. What would you do for a friend?

    I had to call him out said he was blantly lying to the church people. He said why? Because those 121 men who gave their life jacket to the unsaved. Only God knows who is saved so who gives you the right to claim they were not saved. I believe there was never 121 men in a boat who went down with the boat. He said that is not the point. The point would you give your life for a friend. I said I do not know it depends. He said the bible says you should. Then he asked if I was a Jehovahs Witness. Wow was it that obvious,gee, had not been one for years. I said what does that have to do with anythinganything. I said that I would not come back. he said ok there is the door.

    The city church is not anything like the above baptist. Recently I attended New Heights 101. Lol.

    Guy just wanted people to take information. He went thru the brochures. One of them was a contract to join the church. Well at least they are up front with with it. Right? Unlike the JWs hidden meanings.

    Next was God doctrine. I dont care anymore about that one. Next elders. Ekks Next how they handle disfellowshipping. Ekks. I asked questions. They said they do not practise shunning. They try to help people. His answers were nice kind. He said if it were their young son he would reason with him. Most people just leave. They had to disfellowship one person 30 years ago.

    Anhow, churches are for your socialization. I can say something this church is so big that people really do not counts. They claim that status does not matter. In the getting to know you it is all about where you live,areyou working. It is insulting when they pick out the man who is making the most money, and target him with smiles and shower him with a lot of attention.

    I sometimes compare JWs with other churches. Try to get to know other church members it is hard. Several churches greeters have me sit with them. And it does not work out. Not for me. I feel like I got a beware non member written on my back. After awhile it is hard to get to know anyone.

    At least JW have bible studies the Baptist has a bible study. I got rinstated to have fellowship but JWs changed over the years. No friends just strangers. It was hard on me then I realized after all those years I no longer believe what the JWs believe. It was like a double disappointment.Never got oer t.

    Matt sermons New Heights are online.

    Kind of funny I went the atheist way before and found it or me empty. It was the now what.

    Did you watch the latest 60 minutes. I believe that when that many people come together in one spot to save a lady and her two children it is a miracle. What are the chances.

    Also Curry did a special about a total face lift. Even the doctor realized there was a higher power and not just sciences. I loved the fact that Faith and science can unite for the GOOD of the people.

    As we get older it is better to have people.

    Your above reply sounded a lot like me. Not too sure what people are calling it. Shattered self the spiritual side has been twistd into untrusting doctrines. So lets go out of our way to make a simple seminar into doubts. Lets just make others feel that we are strange instead of attending and smiling thru it.

    Been there done that one! LOL The prroblem you went to them right? And your not going to get them to change their minds. Yes, for a second the conversation might feel good. But reality will set in then your going to think why did I say that. Now the dude thinks I am strange. LOL,LOL

    We are strange. Our minds have been altered for years and years with JW doctrines. I been out of the JWs longer than I was in and I still feel different. Maybe because I was born into it. It is hard enough to fit in must less have a strange mind set that others notice. As soon as people here Jehovahs Witness that is it they categorize you, so for years I say nothing. The past is never asked so why say anything. That alone is a hard one but why waste my time preaching anything JW. Good or bad it is still opening up a conversation at the wrong time.

    Been there done that!

  • Terry
    Terry

    sarahsmile says: We are strange. Our minds have been altered for years and years with JW doctrines. I been out of the JWs longer than I was in and I still feel different. Maybe because I was born into it. It is hard enough to fit in must less have a strange mind set that others notice. As soon as people here Jehovahs Witness that is it they categorize you, so for years I say nothing. The past is never asked so why say anything. That alone is a hard one but why waste my time preaching anything JW. Good or bad it is still opening up a conversation at the wrong time. ========================================================== Only another EX-JW can know just what damage has been done and why. Nobody else comes close to understanding that. The wound may heal but the scar is jagged.

  • fakesmile
  • Terry
    Terry

    Do you pronounce your 'name' .i..like fack-sim-milly)? Or is it ...fake smile?

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