This Good News of the Kingdom - Zion's Watchtower - Zionism - The End

by LAWHFol 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  LAWHFol

  Hi Everyone! I hope you're all doing well.. I haven't written for a while, my previous screen name was objectivetruth btw. I look forward to resuming some good conversations with my jw.com family.

  I haven't been active much of late, however a Topic that I have continued to consider & Study is Modern Day Israel & The Early Watchtower's teachings on this topic.

  This is Part 1 - I'll Post multiple posts, to help readers follow my train of thought.

  First I'll cover the Teachings and Overall Belief's of the Watchtower on the Jew's , Israel, and God's Plan for the Jew's.

  
  I've read a lot of the early Publications. The 2 Most insightful publications, for me to read were (Links to the Book's in PDF format highlighted in Blue) :
  

  1. Jewish Hopes - Jerusalem Restoration Prospects 1910 - C.T. Russell Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
  2. Comfort for the Jews - 1925 - Rutherford Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.

  Some Highlights which summarize the message of the 1st Book "Jewish Hopes" :

  • Page 243-245. "the re-establishment of Israel in the land of Palestine is one of the events to be expected in this Day of the Lord, we are fully assured by the above expression of the Prophet. Notice, particularly, that the prophecy cannot be interpreted in any symbolic sense" (Referring to Prophecy at Amos 9:11-15)
  • Page. 245 "AS the time for the promised restoration of God' s favor to Israel draws on, we see a preparation being made for it "
  • Page. 257 "the literalness of the promised return of Israel to their own land, and the rebuilding of Jerusalem upon her own heaps, cannot be questioned"
  • Page 258. "Hence the promised reconstruction of Jerusalem upon her old foundations implies a national reorganization of Israel upon a basis similar to that which it formerly had, as a people over whom Jehovah's Anointed held the authority."
  • Page 258. "Prophecies already examined point to the year 1878 as the date at which Israel's "double" time of waiting for the King was fulfilled. and from which their return to favor and the turning away of their blindness are due. ("Double" Referencing Isaiah 40:2 - Compare in NWT*)

  Some Highlights from the Second Book - Comfort for the Jews

  • From the Book's foreword Page 4. "JUDGE RUTHERFORD, known throughout the world as a friend of the Hebrew people, is vigorously supporting the claim of the Jews to the Holy Land. He is opposed to proselyting the Jews, holding that such is not only wrong but contrary to the Scriptures... His lectures to large audiences, which have been broadcast throughout the world, on "JEWS RETURNING TO PALESTINE", have created an intense interest."
  • Page 6. "Not only Jews but Gentiles should have a keen interest in the question of the rebuilding of Palestine; because if the time has come for this to be done, it means the great transformation period in the affairs of the world. "
  • Page 10. "Prophecy means the foretelling of events that are to transpire before they do transpire. Prophecy can be understood and properly interpreted after its fulfillment or when in course of fulfillment... When prophecy is fulfilled we describe the facts of its fulfillment as physical facts... The proof herein submitted, in support of the conclusions that shall be stated, is based upon prophecy written by holy men of old as recorded in the Holy Scriptures and upon the physical facts in fulfillment. "
  • Page 12. "It was the great Jehovah speaking through men who had faith in him that foretold what we now see transpiring concerning Palestine."
  • Page 12. "when God Almighty - makes a promise that promise is absolutely certain
  • of fulfillment in God's due time."
  • Page 12. "The rebuilding of Palestine is now beginning and is well under way. This is being done clearly in fulfillment of prophecy uttered as promises from Jehovah. (Isaiah 55:11 Quoted)"
  • Page 35. "Israel, when in harmony with God being the only government on earth with which the Lord dealt, is properly called Zion"
  • Page 52. "I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable things."-Jeremiah 16: 14-18.... she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins. Isaiah 40:1,2."
  • Page 52. "Let those who read this prophecy rejoice! The time for its fulfillment is at hand"
  • Page 58. "This overthrow of her kingdom occurred in the year 606 B.C....
  • There was formed the first universal Gentile Empire.
  There God overturned the right of Israel to rule, and permitted the Gentiles to take authority and exercise it. The conclusion must be drawn that the Gentiles were to thus continue by permission of Jehovah for a period of seven times.
  • Page 59. "A literal Jewish "time" means a year-twelve months of thirty days each, or 360 days. If the time is symbolic, a day stands for a year. Seven symbolic "times" therefore would mean 2520 years... It follows then that these seven times, without a question of a doubt... This period of 2520 years began in the year 606 B.C. with the overthrow of Zedekiah, and necessarily ended with the year 1914 A.D...If this calculation is correct, and it must be, then something should have occurred in 1914 to mark the end of God's favor to the Gentiles"

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
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  LAWHFol

  Now a brief summary of the Watchtower's Teaching & View Point of Israel and the Prophecies surrounding the Jew's.

  From the Start in 1879 to 1933 The Watchtower Fully & Abundantly supported Israel, The Watchtower and it's leaders were 100% Supporters of Zionism. The Early Watchtower's written in the late 1800's condemned the Blasphemy of "Replacement Theology" and emphatically stated the fact of Israel being regathered to Palestine, and establish a new Jerusalem, that would Last Forever, and reign in the Millennium.

  In a 1920's or 30;s (Exact article will be provided on request) Article Rutherford stated that "The New Covenant" was only for Natural Jews, Rutherford is now taught as being a participant of the New Covenant, however he had no Idea of his Involvement, 20 Years after its Proposed inauguration.

  This all Changed Almost "Over Night" in 1933 (Great Article covering 1933 and the WT here - http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/hitler-nazi.php)

  They went from one of the Loudest Supporters of Zionsm to an Organization that was Deeply Anti-Semitic in a Single Year.

  I'll next cover why We Should Care about all of this, as well as the Massive Cover-up, now being orchestrated by the Watchtower Organization.
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  LAWHFol

  Now to Briefly discuss, why this Matters..

  The Ra-gathering of the Jew's to Israel in the Years of 1917,1948,1967 , is in my View an Undeniable Miracle & Fulfillment of many Hebrew Scripture prophecies, These fulfillment's are Unlike,shaky and haphazard Watchtower Prophecies, rather they are Easy to See,Understand, and Prove. They are Backed by History,Exact Dates,Signs in the Sun & Moon & Stars, (Luke 21:25) ,Botanical Proofs, and Several Other clear Proofs.

  The above by it self, is a compelling reason to understand the Prophecies Involved, and their Fulfillment, however this is not the primary reason that this all Matters, in the Scope of Watchtower Teachings.

  The reason that this Topic is so important is that it Provides Unquestionable Biblical Proof of Blasphemy on the Part of Modern Day Jehovah's Witnesses, and their Teachings.

  Judge Rutherford said on Page 12 of Comfort for the Jews - "It was the great Jehovah speaking through men who had faith in him that foretold what we now see transpiring concerning Palestine." ... ""when God Almighty - makes a promise that promise is absolutely certain of fulfillment in God's due time.""The rebuilding of Palestine is now beginning and is well under way. This is being done clearly in fulfillment of prophecy uttered as promises from Jehovah."

  Rutherford in Clear non "Double Speak" wording, stated That God Promised that the Jew's would be regathered, to Israel, and what had begun in 1917 Was the Beginning of this Promises prophetic fulfillment."

  The modern Day Governing Body in the 2010 Watchtower Article "Does Bible Prophecy Point to the Modern State of Israel?" Has the Following to say about the Prophecies, said to be a Promise of God by Russell & Rutherford.

  • "Some Evangelical Protestants believe that the modern State of Israel thus fulfilled a Bible prophecy."
  • "Did Isaiah 66:8 predict the establishment of the modern State of Israel? Was May 14, 1948, the “greatest moment in prophetic history of the twentieth century”? If the modern State of Israel is still God’s chosen nation, and if he is using it to fulfill Bible prophecies, this would certainly be of interest to Bible students everywhere."
  • "Still God's Chosen Nation?" - 'In the year 33 C.E., the fleshly nation of Israel lost its claim to be God’s chosen nation when it rejected Jehovah’s Son, the Messiah."
  • "Although the establishment of the modern State of Israel was not foretold in the Bible, the establishment of the nation of spiritual Israel certainly was! If you identify and associate with that spiritual nation today, you will reap eternal blessings."

  So in the Last paragraph the Governing Body clearly states that Modern Israel WAS NOT Prophesied!.This statement greatly contrasts the Statements of Russell "the literalness of the promised return of Israel to their own land, and the rebuilding of Jerusalem upon her own heaps, cannot be questioned"

  If Samuel Herd and C.T. Russell were in the Same Room, discussing this Contradiction would Herd be able to Convince Russell of this "New Light" and that the Multitudinous Prophecies of Natural Israel / Fleshly Descendants of Israel being Regathered to Israel were to be all thought of as Symbolic and referring to a Group that is primarily comprised of Gentiles?

  Would Mr.Herd also Convince Russell that Zechariah 8:23 Was Referring to the Jehovah's Witnesses the New Jew's "In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations+ will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew,saying: “We want to go with you,for we have heard that God is with you people.”

  Or would Russell win out, using 100 Scriptures to 1 to Clearly Demonstrate that Jehovah's Witnesses are Partially Fulfilling a End Time Prophecy.. The Prophecy found at Revelation 3:9 ? "Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you." (Genesis 27:29)?

  
  
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  Viviane

  The Ra-gathering of the Jew's to Israel in the Years of 1917,1948,1967 , is in my View an Undeniable Miracle & Fulfillment of many Hebrew Scripture prophecies, These fulfillment's are Unlike,shaky and haphazard Watchtower Prophecies, rather they are Easy to See,Understand, and Prove. They are Backed by History,Exact Dates,Signs in the Sun & Moon & Stars, (Luke 21:25) ,Botanical Proofs, and Several Other clear Proofs.

  No, they aren't backed by anything. This is just more woo with people seeing what they want to see and misunderstanding the word "proof".
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  LAWHFol

  Viviane - I'm Interested in hearing your thoughts.. How do you interpret / View these Scriptures :

  Ezekiel 36:24 "I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land." (Jer 30:3 / Ezek 37:21 / Jer 16:15 )

  Isaiah 66:8 "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children." (This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2900 years. During that same day, the United States issued a statement recognizing Israel’s sovereignty. And, only hours beforehand, a United Nations mandate expired, ending British control of the land. During a 24-hour span of time.)

  Zech 12:3 "On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will gather against it."

  If you still place any trust in the Bible, I'm interested to hear your views on these scriptures, If not, I can show you some other occurrences, that I view as proofs.

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  Viviane

  How do you interpret / View these Scriptures

  I don't interpret them. I simply look at them and ask "Did this happen exactly as described with specific details?"

  The answer is no. The U.N. created the nation of Israel as it exists today, not god. It's a secular nation, not a theocracy as the bible indicates it would be. Zion in labor is not in any way a description of Jews declaring independence, a 24 hour day is not a moment. All of that is simply YOU trying to layer your specific interpretation of vague and poetic language onto specific events. Nothing more.

  If you still place any trust in the Bible, I'm interested to hear your views on these scriptures, If not, I can show you some other occurrences, that I view as proofs.

  You viewing something as proof doesn't make it actual proof. I would advise you to read the scriptures, the prophecies purely as written and then attempt to determine if, without your knowledge of history, if there is anyway you could possibly have predicted specifically the events you claim match.

  If not, it's not actually prophecy then, is it?
  
  
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  kaik

  Some Jews do not recognize Israel as their state on religious ground. Israel is state with one of the highest percentage of atheists in the world. Israel was created by mandate, and supported originally by USSR and to seed communism there, but Stalin failed. Nothing prophetic about it. Israel is also a democracy and not country run on antiquated, archaic law system. 20% to 25% of population there are not even Jews, so it cannot be called biblical Israel as it is not homogenous state.
  
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  LAWHFol

  
  

  Viviane,

  You make some fair points. Thank you for your response. One thing I'll say before responding, is I have no Agenda, and I have no Bias. My studies have lead me to this current view point, however I have been wrong many a times before, and I will be wrong many a times again. I don't care if I'm right or Wrong, I am simply seeking the Truth.

  
  

  I'm all ears, to every ones View Point, and I'd rather be Wrong than Right, and this way I can strip away more Untruth, and come a bit closer to Truth.

  I enjoy discussing this with you, but please know I'm not trying to argue, or disprove anything you say, simply throwing ideas out there, so that we can all examine them from our own perspectives.

  Your Response :

  "The answer is no. The U.N. created the nation of Israel as it exists today, not god. It's a secular nation, not a theocracy as the bible indicates it would be. Zion in labor is not in any way a description of Jews declaring independence, "

  
  

  My Response :

  It is true that the U.N. , with the earlier support of The British, made the Nation of Israel what it is. It is also True that Israel is a Secular Nation, & far from a Theocracy" I have gone back and forward on this topic, on one Hand, I don't support the Violent & Controversial measures that have been employed by both Parties, in the Battle for Israel, and It doesn't seem to me, that God would be behind such Maneuvers. However on the Other end, it seems like It HAS to be a Start of the Proper State of Israel, which will eventually turn into Zion.

  
  

  Your Response :

  "a 24 hour day is not a moment. All of that is simply YOU trying to layer your specific interpretation of vague and poetic language onto specific events. Nothing more."

  
  

  My Response :

  I agree that moment, does not Necessarily mean a 24 Hour Day, however to be fair this translation isn't completely accurate, The Hebrew words used in place of Moment are pa·'am e·chat; - Meaning "All at Once" The Significant part of Isaiah 66:8 is "e·chad, be·yo·vm" or "in one Day"

  Focusing on the "One Day" 1948 Definitively matches the Description - May 14 1948: The term of the British Mandate ends. The State of Israel is established at 4 pm on May 14, 1948

  
  

  Your Response : "if there is anyway you could possibly have predicted specifically the events you claim match."

  
  

  My Response : I obviously didn't predict any of these Events, I didn't even know the first thing about them for most of my life. Sometimes Men Prophesy, and other Times Men Translate Prophecy.. An example of this is at Daniel 9:2, where Daniel after Study and meditation, came to understand the Precise Timeline of Jeremiah's Prophecy.

  
  

  Similar to Daniel a Man named "Rabbi Judah ben Samuel" in 1217 C.E. made this Prediction :

  "When the Ottomans (Turks) conquer Jerusalem they will rule over Jerusalem for eight jubilees. Afterwards Jerusalem will become no-man’s land for one jubilee, and then in the ninth jubilee it will once again come back into the possession of the Jewish nation – which would signify the beginning of the Messianic end time.”

  To Break This Down :

  • Rabbi ben Samuel died in February 22, 1217
  • 300 Years after his Death in 1517 the Ottoman Turks conquered the Mamluk's and took control of Jerusalem at the same time. (This Confirmed this Prediction "When the Ottomans (Turks) conquer Jerusalem")
  • Leviticus 25 shows that A jubilee is 50 Years, the Ottoman Turks controlled Jerusalem for 400 Years or 8 Jubilees Until 1917 (This Confirmed this Prediction "they will rule over Jerusalem for eight jubilees")
  • Rabbi ben Samuel predicted that Israel would be a "No Mans Land" for the following Jubilee. This would encompass the years of 1917 - 1967 The Term "No Mans Land" has took on Different meanings, however based on my research it's origin is Latin - "Terra Nullius" - One Definition is "No man's land is land that is unoccupied or is under dispute between parties that leave it unoccupied due to fear or uncertainty. From 1917 to 1967 Palestine was Claimed by Multiple Parties, however none of them completely had control over it. In 1967, when Israel Signed its Declaration of Independence, essentially ending the stalemate.

  What do you suppose the Odds of someone Who - What - When & Where with Perfect Accuracy, not on one Event, but 3 Successive Events. It would not be Impossible, but It's in the Territory of Highly Unlikely.

  
  

  What are your thoughts on this Prediction?

  
  

  Also I'm interested in hearing your View on The Prophecies Surrounding Israel, Do you feel that they are still in the Future, or do you feel that they passed in some way already?

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  CloseTheDoor

  This is a subject I have studied for a long time. I tend to agree with much of what the Org taught many years ago on the subject - pro-regathering of a literal people, not being replaced by a "spiritual Israel".
  
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  Viviane

  One thing I'll say before responding, is I have no Agenda, and I have no Bias.

  Well that clearly is not true. You are attempting to show that the WT is false and your points are valid. There is nothing wrong with having agenda.

  However on the Other end, it seems like It HAS to be a Start of the Proper State of Israel, which will eventually turn into Zion.

  *sigh* ... this is why discussing things with Christians like wrestling with an eel covered in oil. In an earlier post you called it undeniable proof of the fulfillment of prophecy. Now it HAS to the the start of what will eventually fulfill the prophecy.

  This is why Christians use the word "proof" so wrong. Everything is proof of the interpretation until suddenly it's not.

  
  

  The Hebrew words used in place of Moment are pa·'am e·chat; - Meaning "All at Once" The Significant part of Isaiah 66:8 is "e·chad, be·yo·vm" or "in one Day"
  Focusing on the "One Day" 1948 Definitively matches the Description - May 14 1948: The term of the British Mandate ends. The State of Israel is established at 4 pm on May 14, 1948

  
  And "all at once" also doesn't mean "in one day". Focusing on what words actually mean, so far nothing you've used matches objective reality. This is purely just your ideas layered on top of poetic language that, without the benefit of hindsight, would give you no clue as to the "prophecy".
  I obviously didn't predict any of these Events, I didn't even know the first thing about them for most of my life. Sometimes Men Prophesy, and other Times Men Translate Prophecy
  You miss the point. You say these "prophecies" that foretell the future have fulfillment. They don't. They are just poetic language. You are fitting past events to vague language. Without the benefit of history, simply reading the prophecy, there is absolutely no way anyone could, 50 years before the events happened, match the events you claim fulfilled to the prophecy to the prophecy.
  
  What are your thoughts on this Prediction?
  My thoughts are that you are matching vague language to events with the benefit of foresight.
  For instance. A jubilee was one year. It happened in 50 year cycles, meaning 8 jubilees would actually be 8 years, not 400. Also, he didn't give dates, so get one number correct is certainly possible purely with luck. Also, you're incorrectly attempting to claim "no man's land" applies to all of Israel when your specific example involves only the Palestinian debate. Also, it's always been inhabited.
  Without making up a lot of things, using weird and twisted definitions and pretzel logic, there is no way to make it fit.