what is it with Watchtower "human apostates"?

by besty 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • besty
    besty

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/Search?cx=partner-pub-4963413421914369%3Ag5in7s-4bz3&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22human+apostate

    This new phrase keeps coming up - any thoughts? Nothing yet on wol jw org

    My 0.02:

    The Governing Body wants to link us ex-Jehovahs Witness apostates into a Universal battle of good v evil which plays into cultish black and white thinking.

    It gives them a legal escape route for hate speech - if they drop in some despicable namecalling and use "apostates" they can later claim they were referring to demonic forces as they didn't qualify with "human" in this case. Of course the JW drone will miss the subtlety.

    Anything I have missed?

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    I think one of two things.

    a) It was just poorly written as part of a symposium that distinguished Satan from "humans".

    b) It was an attempt to lump apostates in general into one group (satanic). Then you distinguish within that group between spiritual and human. Its a way to make them even more scary.

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    I've been hearing a radio ad lately for a company that says you'll talk to a "live human" when you call. It struck a cord with me, since I generally prefer speaking to a live human instead of to speaking a dead human.

  • notjustyet
    notjustyet

    I think problemaddict got it.

    Satan is an apotate, right? Ex Jws are JUST LIKE Satan, but happen to be human.

    So, in the minds of the loyal, brain dead, JWs, we are as close to Satan as a Human can be.

    NJY

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    In the imaginary world of the Governing Body a distinction is made between human and spirit creature type of apostate, all based on some supposed issue of universal soverneignty that started with Adam and Eve eating a forbiddened fruit. It's a tangled web of self-deceit and deception for Watchtower Corporation suvival. They believe it because they have convinced themselves they are specially chosen by God to do a great work in his behalf.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception

    Paradoxes of self-deception [ edit source | edit beta ]

    The works of philosopher Alfred R. Mele have provided insight into some of the more prominent paradoxes regarding self-deception. Two of these paradoxes include the self-deceiver's state of mind and the dynamics of self-deception, coined the "static" paradox and the "dynamic/strategic" paradox, respectively.

    Mele formulates an example of the "static" paradox as the following:

    If ever a person A deceives a person B into believing that something, p, is true, A knows or truly believes that p is false while causing B to believe that p is true. So when A deceives A (i.e., himself) into believing that p is true, he knows or truly believes that p is false while causing himself to believe that p is true. Thus, A must simultaneously believe that p is false and believe that p is true. But how is this possible? [6]

    Mele then describes the "dynamic/strategy" paradox:

    In general, A cannot successfully employ a deceptive strategy against B if B knows A's intention and plan. This seems plausible as well when A and B are the same person. A potential self-deceiver's knowledge of his intention and strategy would seem typically to render them ineffective. On the other hand, the suggestion that self-deceivers typically successfully execute their self-deceptive strategies without knowing what they are up to may seem absurd; for an agent's effective execution of his plans seems generally to depend on his cognizance of them and their goals. So how, in general, can an agent deceive himself by employing a self-deceptive strategy? [6]

    These models call into question how one can simultaneously hold contradictory beliefs ("static" paradox) and deceive oneself without rendering one's intentions ineffective ("dynamic/strategic" paradox). Attempts at a resolution to these have created two schools of thought: one that maintains that paradigmatic cases of self-deception are intentional and one that denies the notion—Intentionalists and Non-Intentionalists, respectively. [1]

    Intentionalists tend to agree that self-deception is intentional, but divide over whether it requires the holding of contradictory beliefs. [1] This school of thought incorporates elements of temporal partitioning (extended over time to benefit the self-deceiver, increasing the chance of forgetting the deception altogether) and psychological partitioning (incorporating various aspects of the "self").

    Non-Intentionalists, in contrast, tend to believe that cases of self-deception are not necessarily accidental, but motivated by desire, anxiety, or some other emotion regarding p or related to p. [1] This notion distinguishes self-deception from misunderstanding. Furthermore, "wishful thinking" is distinguished from self-deception in that the self-deceivers recognize evidence against their self-deceptive belief or possess, without recognizing, greater counterevidence than wishful thinkers. [1]

    Numerous questions and debates have continued to foment regarding the paradoxes of self-deception, however, a consensual paradigm remains intangible.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Yep. I always figured they'd go down the 'Antichrist' route to instill maximum abhorence in the minds of the r&f but the recent anti-apostate rhetoric seems to be doing the trick nicely.

    We need to show them how lovely and normal we apostates really are . . .

  • Gopher
  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    The WTBTs is seeing the inroads being made by 'apostate' web sites. Such sites are waking up those who have doubted for years or even decades in my own case. The GB is desperately trying every possible means to discourage dubbers from even talking to those who have viewed 'apostate' sites. I have tried to convince my wife that the 'truth' is the 'truth' no matter who speaks it. Sites such as jwfacts point to their 'own' literature to prove that jw's do not have the whole story. Once a dub can see it from their own 'sacred' publications, it can and should cause some real concern. It did with me! 60 years as a dubber and now on an active fade. Expect more of a stepped up campaign against faders and doubters. Soon our spouses will not be able to talk to us any longer and of course there is some unrelated scripture that will help dubbers to be 'throughly convinced' that ignoring youyr spouse is scriptural. Stay tuned!

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