The true NATURE of God, as seen by the writers of the EDEN story--.

by prologos 9 Replies latest jw experiences

  • prologos
    prologos

    On the "PICTURE--" thread, Bloody Hotdog made an interesting observation on bloody sacrifices that please God. : Can you picure it?

    Cain, being an astute observer, noted that God approved the bloody sacrifice given by Abel, so he upped the ante' and sacrificed his brother under the guise of anger, jealousy, striving for monopoly.

    Did God see it coming?

    Did God stop it?

    Did God sentence Cain with the strict LIFE for LIFE justice, that later required the ransom that God gave,--- to please himself?

    To the contrary: He acted to protect Cain by vowing to have that murderer's death avenged seven times, if anybody dare to overstep

    the protective MARK that GOD put on CAIN,

    Cain, the man that revealed the true nature of God,

    Cain the first surviving God-protected priest recorded in the bible.

    The Nature of Nature, all life will get used, consumed and it is better fresh.

    except grapes, barley, hops.

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    Very interesting Pro. About the Cain and Abel story, here are a few thoughts that bothered me as a witness.

    god knew what Cain was going to do because he went and warned Cain before it happened. Why didn't he warn Abel? How cruel.

    God knew before it happened that the first murder in history would happen and he didn't stop it. He Was so involved in dealing with humans that they were already offering sacrifices. Why? What purpose was the sacrifice for? Why did god want animals to die for a sacrifice? If the god talked and dealt with people so much that they knew to offer sacrifices and he even spoke to Cain, what does that say about him? He TALKED to them and they ignored him? But today we are supposed to listen to 8 men in New York who change their mind from year to year and give evidence they are NOT inspired?

    lol

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    I am certain there is more to the Cain/Abel story than meets the eye.

    A few observations, Abel was a shepherd/cowman and Cain was a farmer.

    Down to this day, as shown in the movie, "Oklahoma", it takes much effort for the farmer and the cowman to be friends.

    God said he would put emnity between the seeds, so from the start of man down to this day, they had been at eachothers throats.

    On a serious side though, in the scriptures they have illustrations of those who plant the seeds now allowing the masters servants (shepherds) to harvest them. The illustration Jesus gave about the slave workers and keeping the one who inherits from taking his possessions.

    Then it's also interesting that it speaks of Jesus having been killed before the founding of the world. Scriptures also speak about the return of the "son of man". What's interesting is that the name "Adam" and "Man" are the exact same word in hebrew. Abel was the son of Adam, Abel was the first one killed unjustly, so is it coincidence or is there a connection there.

  • prologos
    prologos

    FICTIONAL stories can often engender fertile reviews, ananlyses. Did Cain & Abel trade produce for whool, cheese? was meat just FERTILIZER before it became sacred (picturing the Son of God's substance) offerings? point was:

    If there is a creator, he has evolving on this earth a sometimes bloody but efficient self regulating life/enregy use system. the Cain&Abel story is consistent with that, and makes one adverse to worship.

    Joy, life, friends, family the spark of divinity, while it lasts.

  • prologos
    prologos

    GOD PROTECTED CAIN.

    GOD DID NOT PROTECT ABEL.

    do NOT expect to see a change in that pattern, WT's claim's notwithstanding.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_interpretation_of_religion

    Western religious tradition [ edit ]

    Jung's assessment of Western religion arose both from his own experiences as well as from the psychotherapeutic work with his European clients. As a young man he had visions and dreams that were powerful and rich with meaning, yet he clung to Christianity. While he believed that God could "do stupendous things to me, things of fire and unearthly light", he was profoundly disappointed by his first communion—in his words, "nothing happened". [2] He saw the same symptoms in his clients, namely, a fascination with the power of the unconscious, coupled with the inadequacy of Western religious symbols and rituals to represent this power. Summing up his analysis of the modern European situation he said: "Our age wants to experience the psyche for itself ... knowledge, instead of faith." [3]

    According to Murray Stein, Jungian training analyst and author, Jung related theological concepts and psychological concepts using three tenets: [4]

    1. That words about theological constructs (such as "God") can be interpreted as referring to structures within the psyche.
    2. That psychologists can evaluate the adequacy of theological constructs against the normative structure and dynamics of the psyche.
    3. That words about the psyche are also words about God, due to the correspondence between the structures of subjectivity and objectivity.

    Thus, proceeding by tenet #1 in Answer to Job, Jung interprets Yahweh as an archaic form of the self, Job as the ego, and Satanas the principle of individuation. Jung interprets the evolution of the god-image portrayed in the Old and New Testaments as a process of psychological development: In the Book of Job, the archaic self is prompted to develop toward consciousness by the more conscious ego, a process attended by dreams and prophesies (e.g. the Old Testament prophets). The self enters ego-consciousness (the incarnation of God in Jesus of Nazareth), followed by the emergence of the transcendent function (when the Holy Ghost comes to the disciples at Pentecost). [5]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel

    Psychoanalytic theory [ edit ]

    Freud’s theory of fratricide is explained by the Oedipus or Electra complex through Jung’s supplementation. [46] Indeed in the Old Testament, in particular in the Judaic, Midrash Rabba, and Islamicversions, wherein Cain and Abel are not the only offspring of Adam and Eve, but born as twins with one sister each. In that regard, Abel and Cain were the first two sons, each of whom was born with a twin sister, and Adam decided that to avoid incest, Abel would marry Cain’s sister and Cain, Abel’s sister. Cain, however, refused because he wanted to keep his own sister, but Abel respected the paternal law. Adam suggested sacrificial offerings and in his absence, God accepted Abel’s lamb rather than Cain’s offering of grass. As a result of this preference, Cain killed Abel. This interpretation, however, does not relate to the preference of the sacrifices by God, but rather to the acceptance or rejection of God’s law. Abel obeyed this law while Cain didn’t, and as a result, Cain killed Abel. [47]

    Legacy and symbolism [ edit ]

    Cain and Abel, 15th-century German depiction from Speculum Humanae Salvationis

    A medieval legend has Cain arriving at the Moon, where he eternally settled with a bundle of twigs. This was originated by the popular fantasy of interpreting theshadows on the Moon as a face. An example of this belief can be found in Dante Alighieri's Inferno (XX, 126 [48] ) where the expression "Cain and the twigs" is used as a kenning for "moon".

    In medieval Christian art, particularly in 16th century Germany, Cain is depicted as a stereotypical ringleted, bearded Jew, who killed Abel the blonde, Europeangentile symbolizing Christ. [49] This traditional depiction has continued for centuries in some form, such as James Tissot's 19th century Cain leads Abel to Death.

    In the treatise on Christian Hermeticism, Meditations on the Tarot: A journey into Christian Hermeticism, describes the Biblical account of Cain and Abel as a myth, i.e. it expresses, in a form narrated for a particular case, an "eternal" idea. It shows us how brothers can become mortal enemies through the very fact that they worship the same God in the same way. According to the author, the source of religious wars is revealed. It is not the difference in dogma or ritual which is the cause, but the "pretention to equality" or "the negation of hierarchy". [50]

    In Latter-day Saint theology, Cain is considered to be the quintessential Son of Perdition, the father of secret combinations (i.e. secret societies and organized crime), as well as the first to hold the title Master Mahan meaning master of [the] great secret, that [he] may murder and get gain. [51]

    In Mormon folklore — a second-hand account relates that an early Mormon leader, David W. Patten, encountered a very tall, hairy, dark-skinned man inTennessee who said that he was Cain. The account states that Cain had earnestly sought death but was denied it, and that his mission was to destroy the souls of men. [52] [53] The recollection of Patten's story is quoted in Spencer W. Kimball's The Miracle of Forgiveness, a popular book within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. [54] This widespread Mormon belief is further emphasized by an account from Salt Lake City in 1963 which stated that "One superstition is based on the old Mormon belief that Cain is a black man who wanders the earth begging people to kill him and take his curse upon themselves (M, 24, SLC, 1963)." [55]

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    Prologos and Comatos----

    So true about the stories in the Bible. I always wondered why Jehovah required bloody sacrifices instead of something less violent. If Jehovah was in charge and really knew that taking a life, even in sacrifice would be so repulsive and contrary to human nature, why did he require it. Why didn't he warn Abel that his brother was seeking to slaughter him? Why did he let Satan seduce the woman? Since Satan had already rebelled against God and Jehovah knew that he had rebelled, why didn't Jehovah protect his human children from this rebellious spirit? Why did Jehovah order the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites,man, woman, and CHILD? Why didn't Jehovah just have the people living in the "promised land" removed without violence? When we read about all the animal sacrifices at the temple, we have to imagine hundreds of gallons of blood. I think that the priests were better butchers than ministers of God.

    It disgusts me to think that the God I was taught to worship is so blood thirsty and unloving. JW's today are suppose to warn people of the coming disaster right? Why didn't Jehovah warn Adam and Eve or Abel of coming disaster?

    Just saying!

    eyeuse2badub

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Your alternative public talk for this Sunday.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2ggyT2fbmg

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Just a few pages earlier gives a truer picture of joke-hova. That thing did not want us making free decisions about what is good and bad. Rather, that thing wanted to make those decisions for us--and for its own good to exploit us. Every single decision joke-hova makes for us is to prevent us from being what we could have been. Spirituality is stifled--and it isn't just a void. Fear, shame, and guilt are liberally used to keep the masses in line. Often, priests would have slaughtered people that got too far out of line--that was how it became so widespread. Anyone not believing in jesus would be slaughtered, and whole towns were often wiped out.

    Today, it is almost as bad. Any criticism of jesus' validity is treated with "I am offended by your saying that". They come up with rubbish that does just about as much good in proving jesus' existence as Einstein came up with proof that matter is bound to the speed of light and that we could not generate unlimited electricity. Which is gibberish. Gibberish, that is, that the average person doesn't understand and hence thinks the author is much more intelligent than they are. So, they just put faith in the E=MC 2 as truth without even questioning it. Anyone questioning it gets "How dare you question Einstein?". The same is true about jesus--questioning the LIE-ble is viewed as being offensive. Notably, both have stifled human advancement.

    Note also who was it that risked His life trying to free us from joke-hova's tyranny. And not with death threats or damnation. Satan cared more about us than He did about joke-hova, and worked to free us from joke-hova's tyranny. Notice joke-hova's reaction--that thing threw a temper tantrum right after, because it could not bear to see its plan for us being enslaved thwarted.

  • prologos
    prologos

    WTW, the topic was meant as a critique of the TEXT, the nature of the FICTIONAL characters depicted therein.

    Your railing implies you believe that there is a real person described, that has to be provoked into action* by your uncalled for railing.

    rather than getting too personal, why do you not point out other inconsistencies, follies in the plot?

    Many need to be freed from the idea of taking the -'talking snake et al'- seriously.

    * like standing as a man against a SACRED TREE dedicated and protected by a local deity, or cutting it down.

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