DEEP SH*T. . .but interesting sh*t

by Terry 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry
    Terry

    Think of the ancient world as Classical music.

    Think of Greek Philosophy as Rock n' Roll.

    There is still Classical music, but, Rock and Roll overtook and dominanted popular tastes and changed the marketplace.

    Now, think of Hip Hop in relation to Rock and Roll.

    Rock and Roll begins to fade and a whole new cultural ethos begins to dominate popular tastes. Fashions change, speech changes, attitudes change.

    Plato is Hip Hop and Aristotle is Rock and Roll. Both co-exist. But, those who prefer one to the other break down into definite groups of a certain age, ethnicity and cultural bias.

    So too with Philosophy and Religion as Alexander the Great's conquest introduced a new beat to an old generation and an exciting way of thinking to younger people among them. (Mysticism yielded to Rationalism).

    Alexander the Great conquered nations, tribes and peoples leaving a backwash of Greek Philosophy in his wake.

    Step One

    Realize the ancient Greeks believed that there was always something instead of nothing.

    The idea of nothing or zero is a fairly modern idea!

    [A latter-day philosopher in the Catholic Church first introduced the idea that God created out of nothing (EX NIHILO)]

    What was this something out of which everything is made and how did it get to be something?

    Plato and other Greeks separated the something (called LOGOS) into two categories: Form and Matter.

    Science today likes to use the terms: GENUS and DIFFERENTIA. (example:BIRDS: ROBIN)

    Whatever organized the something was Plato's LOGOS or personified intelligence

    HOW DO WE UNDERSTAND PLATO'S IDEA?

    A carpenter holds in his mind the idea of a chair he wants to make. The carpenter uses materials which already exist to build that idea into an actual chair. The idea is a potential chair and what the carpenter builds is the actual chair.

    Like a dream catcher catches your dream.

    This was a HUGE idea. It rocked the world. It laid down a new beat and had people's minds dancing to a new way of thinking.

    You could dance to this new beat and be a really cool dude!

    But, what were the call letters of this station?

    How did you tune in?

    A set of secret society's and Mystery cults with secret initiation ceremonies were very popular!

    These were a kind of nightclub where only the cool people were allowed in to participate in the greatest entertainment in the universe.

    You had to walk the walk and talk the talk and be totally cool with the rituals. Just like today, you have to wear the chains and the baggy clothes and the bling bling or you aren't hip to the hop.

    THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS community was one of these groups who kept to themselves.

    In the time of JESUS, most Jews had changed.

    The ancient old-fashioned "Moses-style" Jew was out of fashion! It was the newer cool-dude Greek-thinking Jew that was hip to the newest trends.

    In the New Testament, did John simply meant a literal: "Word" or did he mean the Greek metaphor of Logos: personified intelligence in perfect Form?

    Some scholars of the Bible have suggested that John made creative use of double meaning in the word "Logos" to communicate to both Jews, who were familiar with the Wisdom tradition in Judaism, and Hellenic polytheism, especially followers of Philo. Each of these two groups had its own history associated with the concept of the Logos, and each could understand John's use of the term from one or both of those contexts.

    Was John representing Greek thinking?

    Especially for the Hellenists, [Greek-influened people) however, John turns the concept of the Logos on its head when he claimed "the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us"

    Is John toying with the metaphor or changing it from personification into actual Person?

    -not just a Rabbi, not just a Messiah, not just a son of a god, not just a demi-god, but, THE ORIGINAL SOMETHING that Plato and Heraclitus and Aristotle spoke of in ancient times.

    Deep shit. . .but interesting.

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    Kind of like Legos. I hear the movie is very good and it might be, potentially. Get it?

  • applehippie
    applehippie

    Interesting...I'll have to think about it some more but yeah....

  • humbled
    humbled

    James M. West's online article "Gnostic Enigmas in the Gospel of John" presents strong parallels to the deep sh*t you mention, Terry. He makes the point that the writer of John is very nearly the anti-orthodox gospel. In fact, elsewhere, the John Gospel is attributed to Mary the Magdalene--

    The non-canonical sayings of Jesus and the ideas you mention have given me pause to not discard the possibility--even the probability--that a thoughtful workman in the "spot" he occupied in time and place may well have framed up a god that raised the hackles of the scribes, priests and pharisees. Not more or less than a fellow who was sick of the Org. of his day.

    It's not a long read, West's bit. I'd post it here if I had the expertise to do it.

    thanks for the thread, Terry.

    Nice when we are able to think out side the box that's outside THAT box :>)

    Maeve

  • zed is dead
    zed is dead

    You think too much, it will bruise your brain.

    zed

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Terry: Plato is Hip Hop and Aristotle is Rock and Roll.

    Terry, I ordinarily enjoy your esoteric posts.

    This one, not so much.

    Although they influenced each other, Plato was before Aristotle. You have them reversed.

    This is one of the least convoluted parts of your chain of reasoning by analogy.

    You might have fared better saying, "Plato is like Mozart; whereas Aristotle is like Beethoven."

    Terry: Science today likes to use the terms: GENUS and DIFFERENTIA. (example:BIRDS: ROBIN)

    This was apparently originally Aristotle's idea.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I think I need to listen to some Pink Floyd at full volume.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    Terry i like your analogies but if you are looking for some contemporary cross currents you can use the comic poets, satirists and story tellers - composers who appealed to a wide variety of people including teenagers and young adults and who created noisy "tunes" that were discordant to what we could call the orderly, measured classical "tunes" of the day and who would have been frowned on by Plato and Aristotle.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Oubilette says:

    Although they influenced each other, Plato was before Aristotle. You have them reversed.

    This is one of the least convoluted parts of your chain of reasoning by analogy.

    You might have fared better saying, "Plato is like Mozart; whereas Aristotle is like Beethoven."

    Yep, you busted me! Guilty. Thanks for the correction and for reading it carefully enough to detect that.

    Socrates, before Plato, before Aristotle. Rock n' Roll before Hip-hop. Aye aye, Cap'n!

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Terry: Thanks for the correction and for reading it carefully enough to detect that.

    You're welcome. I love reading your threads. You consistently bring us new perspectives. Keep up the good work!

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