discussion with a friend

by inbetween 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  inbetween

  recently, I met an old friend for a coffee, he is a JW in good standing.

  He does not know of my "awakening", but he knows, that I´m pretty open with things.

  So he came up with some thoughts, that, if somebody listened, would be enough for a JC on basis of apostasy.

  Since his English is not so good, I suppose he did not read this on the internet.

  I just paraphrase some of his thoughts:

  The creation account in Genesis is not accurate and in line with science

  A global flood was not possible

  The God of the old Testament accepts colateral damage, he did not care about the individual (example: punishment of People after Davids census)

  the Disfellowshipping policy is a form of extortion and has no basis in the bible

  JW need a major reform

  If you have sex with your future wife, and end up marrying her, don`t tell the elders

  We (jw) sometimes behave like a sect

  he also told me, that a friend , another JW in good standing, expressed some similar ideas.

  Of course, he still believes, we are Gods org, but he admits, thinking about these topics weakens his faith.

  I got the feeling, he stays also only because of family in, and he said, he cannot even mention something like this to them, they would overreact. One time he shared some of his thoughts with his wife, she almost had a breakdown. He will keep quite in future.

  Anyway, I think, there are many like him in the org, and the org knows it too, thats why there are increasingly articles about obedience and blind loyalty.
• 

  Phizzy

  Interesting, I wonder how many in the Org do actually think along these lines ?

  I was one such, though not identifying all of the same problems as your friend.

  In the end it was the calls for blind, unthinking belief and obedience (in other words no expressing of doubts) that led me to leave, and to do so regardless of the flack I would get from Mrs Phizzy and the JW family.

  Maybe many more will find the strength to do the same, I do hope so, for their sakes, life in freedom away from the Org is so much better.
• 

  Xanthippe

  That's really good inbetween. Lots of people are thinking but of course they can't be open about it. We had some of those thoughts and we used to think it wouldn't be sorted out until the New System. We actually thought we could find a corner of the earth somewhere and have a smallholding, grow our own food and keep away from any elders until Jesus sorted them out, even if it took a thousand years! Good news that so many peope are thinking, thank you.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  I wonder how many in the Org do actually think along these lines ?

  The WT Leadership wonders that too.

  And the evidence scares them sh!tless.

  Doc
• 

  Faithful Witness

  inbetween: You are a good friend, to let him tell you about his feelings and doubts. I'm sure it is a great relief to be able to talk to someone who understands. What a great opportunity and release for you both.

  I get the impression it's very hard to find a JW friend you can trust with your secrets.

  Today, it seems that simply doubting or asking questions about the JW religion, is worse than breaking the top 10 commandments of the Old Testament. New World (translation) Order!
• 

  rip van winkle

  I think it's interesting that he verbalized all those thoughts and has NOT awakened!
• 

  valkyrie

  The internet [and XJW information on the internet] is not only in English.

  In any case, maybe your friend can be subtly encouraged to follow his line of thinking to its resolution.
• 

  inbetween

  "I think it's interesting that he verbalized all those thoughts and has NOT awakened!"

  yes, but I remember years ago talking with him quite open, particularly about the demand of unquestionable obedience, which disturbed us both. And at this time, even I was not awaken.

  I also had doubts and questions before, but only through the internet, I realized, my doubts and questions are perfectly justified, since soo many others have them too.

  I know his family well, very nice people, but the world would collaps, if he would leave, and I´m not sure, whether this would be something he or his family could really bear.
• 

  Miss.Fit

  It's nice that he has you to confide in. Maybe he is a closet "apostate" and needs support.
• 

  done4good

  Good to hear Inbetween. I had some similar exchanges with two JW friends recently. I have been out for over 8 years, so I am not sure if it is just that I see things from a much clearer perspective than I used to, but I sense that the R&F are not too content with things lately from the discussions I have had.

  d4g