Greg Stafford's New Book

by Defender 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  Defender

  After reading the first of three dissertations, I felt like posting some early comments for whatever they are worth.

  In Greg's first dissertation, I believe he has taken a courageous step in presenting solid soul-searching questions, especially for thinking JWs who are seeing inconsistencies with some of the organization's procedural and doctrinal issues.

  Although it took me some time to grasp Greg's writing style, I thought the first dissertation started off well. He laid down the premises and provided insightful questions. Then inexplicably, and without prior announcement Greg swerved into questioning James Pennon’s and Raymond Franz's claims of Russell's claim of occupying the office of "that slave".

  Greg presented WT quotations that provided support for his claim that Russell did not claim to be "that servant" but rather it was the "Watchtower".

  It is very easy getting lost in this claim and counter claim wars. Greg's counter arguments, which took several pages and notes, decreased the overall weight of his dissertation which was dedicated to the Society's "claim" of authority. His tangent diversion looked nothing more that trying to score points against Penton and Franz.

  Also, Greg's defense of Russell's viewpoint misses the mark and the big picture. Whether Russell claimed to be "that slave" or rather he said that the “Watchtower” was, is rather meaningless in applying Jesus words about "the Faithful and Discreet Slave". The Watchtower was a magazine that Russell founded, wrote, edited and ran single-handedly. There was no Society at Russell's time. So, even if Russell had said that the slave was the Watchtower, he was still referring to himself. Russell's runabout of who was "that slave" is as devious as the Society's shroud of anonymity.

  Presumably, Jesus was talking about a slave of his. Now, Jesus words could be applied to one single person, a group of persons, or all persons who are Jesus’ true followers. Jesus could not have meant a published magazine, a legal corporation, or a registered name to be his slave.
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  Grunt

  Greg Stafford showed his true colors back on H20 when another Witness on the board ratted him out for being there debating and he had to put his tail between his legs and leave. After leaving he sneaked back in with another persona and bragged on himself, his skills in argument and his patience in putting up with the other guy. He didn't know his real name showed up too. When caught he tried to deny it then tried to twist it around as though he knew it. Nope. I won't be buying his book.
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  BurnTheShips

  I ordered Greg Stafford's book from his site back then.

  He stiffed me. I emailed him several times and was ignored.

  Back then I needed to read what he was saying, now I don't care, I am past it.

  BTS
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  Farkel

  :Greg Stafford showed his true colors back on H20 when another Witness on the board ratted him out for being there debating and he had to put his tail between his legs and leave. After leaving he sneaked back in with another persona and bragged on himself, his skills in argument and his patience in putting up with the other guy. He didn't know his real name showed up too. When caught he tried to deny it then tried to twist it around as though he knew it. Nope. I won't be buying his book.

  Yep. I was there when it happened, and I and others thoroughly trashed him for it. He only apologized, not after he was called on it, but after it was proven beyond doubt that he was the fake poster who praised "Stafford" (himself) for his own brilliance.

  His credibility was trashed from that moment on.

  With regards to Russell claiming to be the FDS, he did everything but. He would say things like "well, some people say I am....", but he never flat out denied it. His own pyramid by his grave claims he was the "Laodicean Messenger," you know, the guy that was sent to straighten out that congregation.

  He definitely ended up full of himself in his last years, and that sin is every bit as aggregious as claiming to be the FDS.

  Farkel
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  Farkel

  :Greg presented WT quotations that provided support for his claim that Russell did not claim to be "that servant" but rather it was the "Watchtower".

  From The Watch Tower, 12/1/1916:

  "Thousands of the readers of Pastor Russell's writings believe that he filled the office of "that faithful and wise servant" ... His modesty and humility precluded him from openly claiming this title, but he admitted as much in private conversation."

  Here the Watch Tower magazine itself said that Russell himself admitted he was the slave. Note this was written after Russell died. That being so, it would be one thing for the Watch Tower to say, "Russell was the slave", and quite another to say, "Russell admitted that he was the slave."

  While the Watch Tower reported it, it was not reporting the feelings of the writer of that article, but the words of the man Russell himself.

  Farkel
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  My Struggle

  I have watched his debate with James White. Stafford did ok on some parts, but overall got hammered. It was quite funny to watch Stafford twist as he broke down and admited he is a Henotheist.
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  My Struggle

  BTW what is H2O that you guys are talking about?
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  Farkel

  For years H20 was THE premier JW discussion board. All apostate heavy-weights were there and dubbies were terrified to debate there. Then it became over-moderated and died.

  Farkel