Can God see into the future? is a wrong question!

by exWTslave 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  exWTslave

  When I read today in this site: Can God see into the future? (by DuvanMuvan ), I thought of posting an article, rather than commenting!

  Did God know that Adam and Eve would disobey? is a wrong question!

  Right question is: Did Adam and Eve know that their disobedience would lead to suffering? Answer is YES.

  This answer is not a guesswork, because situation is same even today—even after seeing the results, people in general behave the way Adam and Eve did. For example:

  1) Do people know: PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE? (Yes, they know, but they prefer cure to prevention which is a costlier and painful method)

  2) Do people know: WE SHOULD REDUCE EXPENSE WHEN INCOME DECREASES? (Yes, they know. Yet population had and has been increasing despite dwindling resources)

  3) Do people know: WE SHOULD NOT BUY SOMETHING GIVING MORE THAN ITS VALUE? (Yes, they know. Yet people are buying shares of companies giving even 10 or 100 times more than the value)

  4) Do people know how to avoid wastage? (Yes, they do. Take just one example: Many thinking people have long suggested that everyone who excels above all in a particular field should automatically become a member of Legislative Body of his country for a limited period, thus supplying the best rulers for the country in all aspects—without the extravaganza of Election Process)

  5) Do people know how to bring down crime rate? (Yes, they do. Today’s judicial system is more about punishment of the perpetrator of a crime rather than giving compensation to the victim. For example, for every crime there should be 10 or 100 times compensation, the amount of which should be confiscated from the criminal, his family, his relatives, his township, his school, his religion---all those who failed in inculcating values in him.)

  God only teaches us, neither rewards nor punishs us!

  If you want to know more about superior laws and superior system of things existing in the Spirit World, and other planets, read DESTINY OF SOULS, written by Dr. Michael Newton. This is the best book I have ever read in my life! Really an invaluable treasure!!!
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  Jeffro

  Is there any evidence that God exists? No.

  Is there any evidence that Adam & Eve existed? No.

  Is there evidence that Adam & Eve as portrayed in the Bible definitely did not exist? Yes.

  I think that covers it.
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  exWTslave

  Adam and Eve are just symbols. The situation we find ourselves in are similar to what Adam and Eve supposedly found themselves in--would man do something which he knows would end in his suffering?

  Tortoise and hare are just symbols. But diligence and laziness they displayed are more real than the symbols.
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  Jeffro

  exWTslave:

  God only teaches us

  Adam and Eve are just symbols

  It's quite an awkward story if you're claiming that one character of the story is real and the other two are 'allegorical'. Especially when the one posited as real is even more proposterous than the others. Why not ditch the story altogether, stop making 'excuses' for the fictional barbaric God of the Bible, and just get to the point where people should take responsibility for their own actions?

  If you want to know more about superior laws and superior system of things existing in the Spirit World, and other planets, read DESTINY OF SOULS, written by Dr. Michael Newton.

  Ah... No. Seeing as there is precisely zero evidence of a 'spirit world', what is Mr. Newton's source?
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  KateWild

  Can God see into the future? and Should people take responsibility for their actions?

  These two questions are different and it's not wrong to ask any questions, asking if God can see into the future can help individuals work out what their belief system is. Asking if people should take resposibility for their actions can help individuals become more responsible members of society.

  I think there are two different points here and I think there is never a wrong question to ask. I think it's always good to ask questions of any kind.

  Kate xx
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  DeWandelaar

  I think that these questions are already wrong since it states two things as true beforehand: 1. God (or rather the God of Bible/Koran/Torah) exists. 2. Adam and Eva existed. That alone makes an usefull answer impossible.
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  prologos

  If we assume that the universe did not make itself and there IS a creator,

  given what we KNOW about time,

  There is nothing to see for anyone in the future-time. perhaps the creator would see a self-portrait, he would be the only one there.
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  DuvanMuvan

  Hey you responded to my thread. I was really asking what was the logic behind putting the tree in the garden if god already knew from the beginnging they would eat from it and he could see from the beginning the outcome of their actions (assuming that the story in the bible is literal and according to jws it is). I was also trying to make the point that god either wasn't being loving or wasn't thinking ahead before he did it.

  but if you don't take the story literally then I guess it doesn't really matter
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  Apognophos

  Your question can be answered from different perspectives, as some here have demonstrated already. One could say that it didn't matter whether God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, only that he gave them free will and let them reap the consequences of their actions. It's a bit like a father watching his son reach out to a hot stove. He has previously warned his son not to touch it, but he decides that he'll let him touch it, so he learns his lesson. What better way to learn than experiencing the memorable pain of getting burnt?

  Now, most people today would say that, while it may be the best way to teach your child that particular lesson, it's not loving to do that. So God's actions seem to fall short from today's perspective on how to raise a child (or a human creation), coupled with the assumption that God could have predicted their action. Of course, even if God was choosing not to see the future and thus could not warn them, he could physically see Eve taking the fruit, couldn't he? Why were there no rumblings in the sky, no booming voice commanding her, "Halt! That snake is a liar!" Where is God during the period when she gives the fruit to Adam?

  All of this reasoning is based on the assumption made by Christians and others today that God is omniscient and omnipresent. However, this is not the case with the primitive conception of YHWH that is found in some parts of the OT, such as the second creation account starting in Gen. 2:4 and the tale of the tree of knowledge in Gen. 3. Unlike the more distant, abstract God in Gen. 1:1-2:3 ("Elohim"), which was written later in time, the god of Gen. 2 and 3 is called YHWH and he is, well, much more hands-on. He forms man out of the ground (with his hands, naturally) and blows breath (with his lungs, naturally) into Adam's nostrils, like a divine potter. He "plants" the Garden of Eden. He "brings" the animals to Adam which he "forms from the ground". And in chapter 3 when Adam and Eve sin and then hide themselves, YHWH is walking through the Garden on his daily inspection when he realizes that they are missing. In 3:9, he "keeps calling out to the man, Where are you?". He then makes garments of skin for them before kicking them out of the garden.

  Does this sound like an all-powerful cosmic deity to you? Or more like a god-man? A powerful figure with a human appearance?

  In this older conception of the Creator, it's much more forgiveable that God let Adam and Eve sin. He couldn't have foreseen it, and he wasn't around at the time so he couldn't stop them. Simple as that, end of story. The later idea that God had to be perfect and all-knowing makes this account much harder to understand, but that's the fault of the later thinkers for pushing absolute attributes on a god that didn't used to have them.