Chat with Elder and Mother

by awakening 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • awakening
    awakening

    My regular weekly chat with an elder who is trying to keep me on the straight and narrow amazed me!

    We were on the subject of Jehovahs blessing. I said its my mothers belief that Jehovah has blessed her and the family over their years of faithful service. She can relate several experiences that are Jehovahs direct hand on a matter.

    My chat with my Mother first -

    I said to my mother that I felt that such intervention is nonsense, since it implies that a god is infact partial. Surely the idea that Jehovah had a direct hand in delivering my sister from a life threatening illness implies that he ignored or didnt care about another witness who dies in that situation. My mothers response was astonashing, she said that Jehovah helped my sister because it worked out to be a great witness to the community re. the blood issue. He may choose not to help another person in the same situation as this will allow them the chance to remain faithful to the end!!!!

    How can you even begin to reason with that kind of thought prosess?

    Surprisingly the Elder admitted that too many events among the witnesses are credited with Jehovahs direct hand, but he said in the next breath that because Jehovah is behind his people then all good things do come from god, so in effect we do receive blessings from Jehovah.

    I then talked about the "take it and leave it" mentality. If its good its Jehovahs blessing if its bad its Satan putting pressure on. If an archaeologist finds something to support an event, use it. If the same person finds something contrary then dont use it or discredit it.They did this with the Ptolemy cannon, quoted it for support and then in another instance say that it is unreliable. Its the same with everything!!!! So frustrating because its impossible to reason with people like this.

  • Sayswho
    Sayswho

    • How can you even begin to reason with that kind of thought prosess?

    Reason is the capacity for consciously making sense of things, applying logic, for establishing and verifying facts, and changing or justifying practices, institutions, and beliefs based on new or existing information.

    JW are not allow to use reason and logic to prove their belief...only believe what the watchtower is teaching at any given time!

    Take away a persons reasoning capability and you can control them forever.

    SW

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    How can you even begin to reason with that kind of thought prosess?

    You can't.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Haidt suggests we use our reasoning power primarily to influence others to our already established beliefs. This would explain how intelligent people get sucked in, and that intelligence alone is not a protection. It also explains why you cannot reason a person out of their religious belief. To reach the person speak to their native motives behind the veneer of religiosity. Appeal to their empathy.

  • blondie
    blondie

    (James 1:13) 13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

    Officially, this is how the WTS applies it.

    *** w11 12/15 p. 28 Do Not Let Illness Rob You of Joy ***

    We should avoid thinking that a personal affliction is evidence of God’s displeasure. (Lam. 3:33) Think of what Job had to go through despite being “blameless and upright.” (Job 1:8) God does not try anyone with evil things. (Jas. 1:13) All illnesses—including the chronic and the emotional—are a dismal legacy from our first parents, Adam and Eve.—Rom. 5:12.

    *** w07 1/15 pp. 21-22 par. 5 Teach What the Bible Really Teaches ***

    When one woman lost her two small children in an automobile accident, her minister said: “It was God’s will. God needed two more angels.” When clergymen make such comments, they are actually blaming God for the bad things that happen. Yet, the disciple James wrote: “When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.” (James 1:13) Jehovah God never causes what is bad. Indeed, “far be it from the true God to act wickedly.”—Job 34:10.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    If it's good, it's from Jehovah.

    If it's bad, then it's from Satan, or maybe just "time and unforseen occurence."

  • CaptainSchmideo
  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi awakening, Have you tried to just ask JWs simple questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite did in his thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed? I know that asking simple questions to help a JW's authentic persona to confront his cult persona is difficult - not impossible. It will get easier with practise and is easier than trying to convince JWs that they are wrong.

    When you feel frustrated with telling JWs that they are wrong, look in the mirror and remember what Einstein said, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein". Then ask yourself, "Who is insane for debatting with a JW?", and try doing something different.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

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