Beliefs most JWs can't explain.

by Mazza 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mazza
    Mazza

    Blondie posted this under Englishman's topic about the 144 being the mediator between the Great Crowd and Jehovah. It looks a really handy list - but I'm not too familiar with some of them.e.g. 7, 8, 9. I'm not even that sure on 5 and 6. Is the reason most JWs can't explain them because there have been so many changes that most dubs aren't up with the brightest light? Just wondering.

    1. Generation (how long)
    2. Alternative service (permissible?)
    3. Blood fractions (what)
    4. Mediator (whose)
    5. Separating of the Sheep and the Goats (when)
    6. King of the North (who)
    7. Disgusting thing standing in a holy place (when)
    8. Voting (permissible?)
    9. Christian Jubilee (1,000 Year Reign?)

  • Bang
    Bang

    Is the reason most JWs can't explain them because there have been so many changes that most dubs aren't up with the brightest light?

    I don't think they've even got a torch between them. The light that they saw was just a reflection of someone else from a certain angle.

    Bang

  • blondie
    blondie

    Well, I guess I have to be able to pass my own test to pass judgment on JWs who are not even aware of what their organization teaches.

    5. Separating of the Sheep and the Goats (when)

    November 15, 1983 Watchtower page 26

    Jesus now sits on his glorious heavenly throne, judging the nations of earth and separating the people “just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.”

    Current thought since 1995:

    July 1, 1997 Watchtower page 30*

    Matthew 25:31, 32 says: “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.” The Watchtower of October 15, 1995, showed why these verses apply after the great tribulation begins. Jesus will arrive in his glory with his angels and will sit on his judgment throne. Then, he will separate people. In what sense? He will render decisions based on what people did or did not do before that time.
    October 15, 1995 Watchtower page 24
    NOTE THE PARALLELS
    Matthew 24:29-31 Matthew 25:31-33
    After the great tribulation Son of man arrives in glory
    begins, the Son of man comes and sits on his glorious
    with great glory throne

    Angels present with him Angels arrive with him

    All tribes of earth see him All nations gathered; goats
    judged finally (the great
    tribulation ends)

    6. King of the North (who)

    With the downfall of the Communist bloc, who is now the King of the North?

    November 1, 1993 Watchtower page 21

    12 So who is the king of the north now? Is he to be identified with one of the countries that were part of the old Soviet Union? Or is he changing identity completely, as he has a number of times before? We cannot say. Who will be the king of the north when Daniel 11:44, 45 is fulfilled? Will the rivalry between the two kings flare up again? And what of the huge nuclear stockpiles that still exist in a number of lands? Only time will provide the answers to these questions.
    Currently, unofficially many JWs speculate that the Islamic countries will take the Soviet Union’s place. If anyone has seen or heard anything official, please post it here.

    7. Disgusting thing standing in a holy place (when)

    Previously thought: That the ‘disgusting thing” the League of Nations and eventually the UN is the disgusting thing and it began standing in a holy place, the place God’s kingdom should rightfully be in, in 1920 when the churches said the following:

    October 1, 1985 Watchtower pages 10-11

    13 Interestingly, the Hebrew word translated “disgusting thing” in Daniel is shiq·quts'. In the Bible, this word is used principally of idols and idolatry. (1 Kings 11:5, 7) With this in mind, read some comments by religious leaders about the League:

    “What is this vision of a world-federation of humanity . . . if it be not of the Kingdom of God?” “The League of Nations is rooted in the Gospel.” (Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America) “Every one of [the League of Nations’] objects and activities may be claimed as fulfilling the will of God as made known in the teaching of Jesus Christ.” (Bishops of the Church of England) “The meeting therefore commends to the support and prayers of all Christian people the League of Nations as the only available instrument for attaining [peace on earth].” (General Body of Baptists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians in Britain). “[The League of Nations] is the only organised effort which has been made to carry into effect the repeated wishes of the Holy See.”—Cardinal Bourne, Archbishop of Westminster.

    14 When the nations not only rejected God’s Kingdom but also established their own organization to bring peace, that was rebellion. When religious leaders of Christendom identified that organization with God’s Kingdom and the Gospel, proclaiming it to be “the only available instrument” for bringing peace, that was idolatry. They were putting it in the position of God’s Kingdom, “in a holy place.” Certainly, it was “standing where it ought not.” (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14) And religious leaders continue to support the League’s successor, the United Nations, rather than point men to God’s established Kingdom.

    May 1, 1999 Watchtower pages 16-17

    11 However, in later years we have come to see things differently. On Thursday, July 10, 1969, at the “Peace on Earth” International Assembly in New York City, F. W. Franz, then vice president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, gave an electrifying talk. In reviewing the previous understanding of Jesus’ prophecy, Brother Franz said: “The explanation was given that the ‘great tribulation’ had begun in 1914 C.E. and that it was not allowed to run its full course then but God stopped World War I in November of 1918. From then on God was allowing an interval for the activity of his anointed remnant of elect Christians before he let the final part of the ‘great tribulation’ resume at the battle of Armageddon.”

    12 Then a significantly adjusted explanation was offered: “To correspond with the events of the first century, . . . the antitypical ‘great tribulation’ did not begin in 1914 C.E. Rather, what took place upon Jerusalem’s modern antitype in 1914-1918 was merely ‘a beginning of pangs of distress’ . . . The ‘great tribulation’ such as will not occur again is yet ahead, for it means the destruction of the world empire of false religion (including Christendom) followed by the ‘war of the great day of God the Almighty’ at Armageddon.” This meant that the entire great tribulation was yet ahead.

    13 This has a direct bearing on discerning when “the disgusting thing” stands in a holy place. Recall what happened in the first century. The Romans attacked Jerusalem in 66 C.E., but they abruptly withdrew, which allowed Christian “flesh” to be saved. (Matthew 24:22) Accordingly, we expect the great tribulation to begin soon, but it will be cut short for the sake of God’s chosen ones. Note this key point: In the ancient pattern, ‘the disgusting thing standing in a holy place’ was linked to the Roman attack under General Gallus in 66 C.E. The modern-day parallel to that attack—the outbreak of the great tribulation—is still ahead. So “the disgusting thing that causes desolation,” which has existed since 1919, apparently is yet to stand in a holy place. How will this happen? And how can we be affected?

    16 Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future. As first-century followers of Christ must have keenly watched to see how the “standing in a holy place” would develop, so do present-day Christians. Admittedly, we will have to wait for the actual fulfillment to know all the details. Yet, it is noteworthy that in some lands there is already a detectable and growing antipathy toward religion. Some political elements, in league with former Christians who have deviated from the true faith, are promoting hostility against religion in general and true Christians in particular.

    8. Voting (permissible?)

    Previous thought was that no voting at all, either in political or school elections. No JW would run or hold office, or participate in political activity of any kind.

    United in Worship page 166

    But, since Jesus said that his disciples would be “no part of the world,” Jehovah’s Witnesses take no part whatsoever in political activities.

    May 15, 1964 Watchtower page 308

    Even in certain democracies the law makes it compulsory for the citizens to go to the election places. In no country do Jehovah’s witnesses take part in politics. They are not of this world. (John 17:14) Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections. They do not compromise their neutral standing in matters of politics, however, if they go to the polls and make the ballot void in some manner, either by crossing it out or by putting down, for example, the words “For God’s Kingdom.” That is telling what he is for. By doing this their ballot will become void; it will not count in the election of a man. They have complied with the law and gone to the polls and likely avoided punishment.

    (How many knew they could do this?)

    School and Jehovah’s Witnesses page 16

    However, Witness youths do not mix in school politics, either by accepting an elective office or by voting others into office. So if either nominated for or elected to an office, they tactfully decline. In this way they follow the example of Jesus who withdrew when the people wanted to make him king.—John 6:15.

    Current thought:

    November 1, 1999 page 28

    How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?
    There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself… What, though, of voting in political elections?

    As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State.

    What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator.

    The November 15, 1950, issue of The Watchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: “Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot.”

    What if a Christian woman’s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote?…If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.

    What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision.

    I wonder how many knew about that out given in 1950?

    9. Christian Jubilee (1,000 Year Reign?)

    Previously thought:

    August 1, 1976 Watchtower page 454

    Yes, God purposes a much larger and finer “Jubilee” for humankind. This “Jubilee,” symbolically, is the thousand-year reign of his kingdom under Christ.

    Currently thought:

    January 1, 1987 Watchtower page 21

    When did this greater Jubilee that could bring freedom even from sin and its effects begin to be celebrated? It was in the spring of 33 C.E., on the day of Pentecost.
  • Will Power
    Will Power
    Currently, unofficially many JWs speculate that the Islamic countries will take the Soviet Union’s place. If anyone has seen or heard anything official, please post it here.

    There is a .wav file, I think it is on the freeminds site that has a recent PO talk. There is definite finger pointing to our muslim friends.

    The WT has already taken up a position in a holy place and their deception, false date setting, claim to exclusivity, policies on: blood, child molesters, rape, independent thinking, disfellowshiping, theocratic warfare, UN affiliation, manipulation of the bible,....
    THESE ARE ALL DISGUSTING THINGS that have become inseparable from the organization so should be treated as poison like THEY SAY!

  • SYN
    SYN

    Dubs are like a multiprocessor web server: Lots of people are constantly processing new information, but nobody really knows everything at once Sheesh, I think one would peg of infooverload if one tried to assimilate all the New Light released every day!

    "If men were like their personal ads, they wouldn't need personal ads."

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