Christianity and Enforced Unity

by Gozz 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Gozz

  Frequently, JWs will argue that the unity of the congregation is inviolable. That has been the case in the ongoing child molestation cases, where a number of those involved have been expelled based ont he allegation of "sowing discord". My correspondences with JWs on several levels have shown that this is the current, and most attractive explanation to justify the expulsion/disfellowshipping of those championing the child molestation cases. I have had to engage in discussions with several of the friends on this matter. The argument that the conscience of the individual should take precedence over organizational laws aimed at enforcing unity does not seem to impress them. But a line of reasoning anchored on pointing to biblical examples might be helpful:

  (1) instances in which biblical figures clearly went against constituted authority in pursuance of what they believed to be right
  (2) instances in which such behaviour led to some form of disunity.
  (3) instances in which such behaviour led to punishment (or not) by God.

  The motive here is to employ some form of reasoning that will appeal to the regular JW, with regard to their peculiar concept of unity. I will appreciate quotes from Watchtower sources that are related to the matter. Other related comments will also be appreciated.

  As an example, Uriah, Bathsheba's husband, upon being summoned from the warfront by David, refused to sleep in his own house, despite being asked to do so by David. One could also mention the bible character (I don't remember the name) who delivered the letter ordering the placement of Uriah in the thick of the battle to facilitate his death; would he have been right to deliver if he was aware of the instruction?

  *
• 

  accuracy

  Perhaps you need to explain it better, but I do not see where Uriah is relevant here. What David did was itself in violation of God's law.

  And has anyone in the pedophile cases actually been disfellowshiped for causing "disunity"? In other words, are the issues before the judicial committes based solely or at all on their speaking out against pedophilia?
• 

  Gozz

  Perhaps you need to explain it better, but I do not see where Uriah is relevant here. What David did was itself in violation of God's law.

  What I require are instances in the bible where people stood up for what they believed was right, regardless of what constituted authority felt, and I refer to cases where the 'deviant' behaviour is one in support of something good. Uriah is an oblique example, used to illustrate what I have in mind. Perhaps an example too pedestrian. Uriah did not listen to the king's instruction to go to his house and his wife, and his reason was that he couldn't since others were at the warfront. He was unaware of what the king had done.

  And has anyone in the pedophile cases actually been disfellowshiped for causing "disunity"? In other words, are the issues before the judicial committes based solely or at all on their speaking out against pedophilia?

  Perhaps my information is wrong. But the strongest argument, and allegation against the champions of the molestation cause would be that they are sowing discord, formentiung disunity by their very act of bringing the matter to the public. It will be taken that they have sidestepped the Society's guidelines/instructions on the matter; that has been the argument of the JW friends I have spoken with. I believe the 'block' in their thinking could be pulled down, helped, if they saw examples from the scriptures.

  I hope that's a little clearer.

  *
• 

  Gozz

  So no on eresponded to this thread?

  Gozz, returning from some form of exile.
• 

  Robdar

  Gozz,

  Welcome back from exile.

  I believe the 'block' in their thinking could be pulled down, helped, if they saw examples from the scriptures.

  I wish that I could agree with you on that statement. Although it seems that it should be that way, it isn't.

  My parents were very alarmed when they saw the "Dateline" program exposing the pedophiles within the org. Heh, they stayed home from the book study that night to watch it. The information supplied by that program was enough to keep them away from the KH for months.

  My father, a former elder, tried to explain to his friends, who dropped in to see why my parents were no longer attending meetings, that to harbor pedophiles was wrong. He has also mentioned the societies connection with the UN. No matter what he said, the ones who are brainwashed turned a deaf ear. They became very concerned for his spiritual well being. It never occurred to them to be concerned about themselves and how they were willing to swallow whatever BS the society might be telling them. One brother, an elder, told my dad that while what he was saying is true, that it is better to wait on Jehovah than to cause dissentions among the brothers.

  My dad received a visit from the CO telling him to be careful of what he said or he could be accused of apostasy. My father gave up. His attendance at meetings has dropped off considerably. I think that the only reason that my father and mother have not been DF yet is because dad was the PO when the current elders were children. They love my dad, and do not want to be too harsh on him.

  The witnesses believe that they have the truth. That the WTS is God's divine messenger on earth. The fear that envelopes their daily life prevents them from thinking for themselves. It also prevents them from having empathy towards the ones that are abused in the congregation.

  It's sad, but the way it is.

  Robyn
• 

  Gozz

  Robyn, thanks.

  We were almost all engulfed by that kind of fear. So where did it go? Many Witnesses have left the Organization. Is there a common thread or common threads to why they left? We can blow hot all we want about Witnesses not listening, but it's probably because there's not system to the way we've gone about doing it. Witnesses themselves have a system; they've won converts; the number are dropping, fine, but some total outsiders are still joining the organization. Other than observations and exposure to outside information, if Witnesses can see examples that going against God's Divine Messenger has not always resulted in overt actions of disapproval on the part of God, might be a way to start making them use their own mind, no?

  I'm happy some for your dad. But you'll probably agree that there were days when he wasn't exactly like this. There's something lurking behind the JW conscience, or what is displayed of it. How can one get to it?
• 

  DannyBear

  Gozz,

  Recently Amazing wrote a thread about 'doubting' Thomas of Jesus era......that might help your search.

  The good samaritan who violated god's own laws to do good, even though it was a parable.

  Sampson allowed his hair to be cut (violation of god's law) yet god still used him.

  The nation of Isreal constantly complained about gods provisions, stirring up god's chosen ones, yet god still dealt with them.

  Iam sure there is lots more, but it has been so long since I have studied the bible, my memory is fading.

  Danny
• 

  Robdar

  I'm happy some for your dad. But you'll probably agree that there were days when he wasn't exactly like this. There's something lurking behind the JW conscience, or what is displayed of it. How can one get to it?

  You get to it through love. And sometimes that can take years because JWs are existentially afraid; frightened to be in the world without "Mother" to guide them.

  Witnesses themselves have a system; they've won converts; the number are dropping, fine, but some total outsiders are still joining the organization.

  This is true. They do have a system to win converts. But how many people must they contact to make those few converts? You and I have had enough doors slammed in our faces to know that not too many people decide to join. It's the same with witnesses. You may be able to help 2 or 3 see what is going on but not many.

  You know, I am not sure if it is proper to try to convert witnesses. If they are happy being dubs, I say let them be. Hell, they could even be right, for all I know.

  Robyn