All things have been fulfilled

by themaccauk11 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • themaccauk11
    themaccauk11

    Its plain as day what jesus said was to those people standing in fornt of him and it was for one generation only .The prophecies were not about the end of the world but the end of the old jewish system of things. Why do people today since the 1700s put themselves in the shoes of the ones jesus was talking to. I quote "Trtuly i tell you, some of you standing here will not die until you see the son of man coming in his kingdom". He wa stalking to those in front of him. In revelation itwas written to the seven churches in Asia minor no where else . Quite clearly a spiritual event that did occur in the 1st century. The delusion is it is still to come because churche stoday are building their own kingdoms on earth and donot enter into the unseen spritual kingdom that reigns. All we got to do is enter into the kingdomspiritually not through any church.It dwells in us etc

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I have heard this line of reasoning before. It may be true that none of the prophecies apply today.

    This raises a lot of questions for me. If we assume that the Bible is true, how would you answer:

    If everything has been fulfilled, what does that mean for us today?

    Is the Bible relevant to us? Can modern day humans find hope in Jesus Christ?

    Was there already a great tribulation?

    Is this the new heavens and new earth?

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Spot on. Even old Mr. Clarke - nearly 200 years ago - saw the truth of Jesus' words!

    Scroll down half way and read his summary of Matthew 24.

    We've even got a copy of this book in our Kingdom Hall library!!

    http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1810_clarke_commentary.html

  • mauiboy
    mauiboy

    I, too, have long felt the Bible was written as a rule book for 1st century Christians hoping to get into heaven. For us, it's more of a guide book....not a rule book. Also, simply look at the names of the books within the Greek scriptures....I have searched repeatedly and never yet found any translation with a book addressed to "Christians in the 19th and 20th century". When read with this perspective, it starts to make sense and prophecies (for the most) are much easier to understand and accept.

  • L3G
    L3G

    Maybe because in NT books written after the fulfillment of those words around the "generation" Jesus is reported to have promised to come again?

    Maybe because the type-antitype, shadow-reality concepts became reigning principles within the church??

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Sorry...I can't buy into the preterist theology. There is too many prophecies that remain unfulfilled. Armageddon has not yet occurred. The Jews were to be scattered according to not only the Old Testament, but the New. And after being scattered, they were to be gathered back to the lands of their inheritance. According to prophecy, the enemies of Judah would be those "round about" them, a situation that did not exist until our day. Israel today is surrounded by enemies who have sworn their destruction. (See Ezekiel 38-39; Zechariah 12-14; Revelation 11) The scriptures thus say that the beast of Revelation, also known as "the Assyrian" and "Gog," would make war with the holy ones (Judah) and would overcome them. But just as Judah faced certain destruction, the Savior would return and rescue them. His feet at that day would stand on the Mount of Olives, which will cleave in twain, and the Jews would flee into the valley thereof. Then the Jews will ask him, "What are these wounds in thy hands?" And he will reply, "These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends."

    Then will the Jews realize that their Messiah was the one they knew as Jesus of Nazareth, and then they will go into mourning. But in the "brightness" of his coming, he will destroy all but a sixth of those who came against Jerusalem. The Jews will them usher him into the temple through the East Gate, which will then be sealed forever. And it will take the inhabitants that are left seven years to burn the weapons of the beast. And as bodies are discovered, they will be tagged for burial. But before then, the wild animals and fowl will strip the flesh from the bones of the dead, and God said he would call them to the great feast of the Lord.

    There are many other prophecies that remain, as yet, unfulfilled. So it's not over til the fat lady sings!

    Ezekiel 38

    Ezekiel 39

    .

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    I meant to post this above, but the copy and paste feature didn't work:

    Ezekiel 39

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    COLD STEEL SAID - "Sorry...I can't buy into the preterist theology" (PRETERIST - a person who maintains that the prophecies in the Apocalypse have already been fulfilled)

    I was referring to Matthew 24, not Revelation (the APOCALYPSE).

    When Jesus spoke to people, he said "THIS generation". (referring to those listening!) He did not say "THAT generation", pointing to the 21st century or beyond!

    (Matthew 24:34-35) "Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away."

    Despite the fact that the Org has hijacked Matthew 24:14 as its mantra and rallying call to get the sheep to do its bidding, (and generate income and free labor for itself!) the truth is, that by 60-61 C.E. the apostle Paul wrote to the Colossians - "that good news which YOU heard, and which was preached in all creation that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister." A few months later, the end came for the Jewish system of things - the generation saw the prophecy fulfilled, just as Jesus had told them they would!

    Revelation - now that's a different ball-game altogether!

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    The generation being discussed is most likely the generation in which the things Jesus is speaking about would happen. At least that's what many futurist theologians have long concluded. Complicating the exegeses is the fact that much of the New Testament is not exactly how it appears in many translations. As one scholar stated: "Much of the New Testament is in barbaric Greek, and the ancient pagans often jeered at the illiteracy and bad grammar of the Disciples; yet in our English Bible their grammar is meticulously correct. Is that an indication of skullduggery? No more than the poor grammar of the ancient Apostles was proof that they were not inspired."

    In the case of Matthew 24, we have a number of things the Lord specifically mentons, beginning with the battle of Armageddon. Forget everything the Jehovah's Witnesses teach regarding Armageddon. The Lord is speaking of the last great confrontation between Judah and its enemies:

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    This is the battle of Gog and Magog, a time when Judah's enemies will descend upon them with great force. We know by reading Ezekiel 38-39 that this will happen after the Jews have been scattered to the ends of the earth and then gathered back into the lands of their inheritance. That couldn't possibly happen in that generation. The Romans drove the Jews out Judea and they were scattered throughout the world. Then, in the late 1800s, the Lord "set his hand again" to recover his people. (See Isaiah 11:11-12: " And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.... And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.") Look how many years it took for that to happen!

    Then, getting back to the grammar issue, Young's Literal Translation renders the "this generation" passage thus:

    As you can see, there's some question as to what's being said here. We also know that many unauthorized changes were made by later scribes. Many atheists cite Matthew 24:34 to prove that Jesus issued a false prophecy; however, the prophecies did come to pass; just not in one generation.

    Ezekiel writes:

    • After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations .... (38:8)
    • So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , the Holy One in Israel. (39:7)
    • And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. (39:21)
    • ... the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward. (39:22)
    • And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me; therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. (39:23-24)
    • When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations. (39:27)

    By examining the above, you can place the time of this battle. This is not the battle at the end of the Millennium by the same name. Perhaps the Lord meant that in the generation in which these things happen, they will all be fulfilled. From history, we know the Jews were scattered throughout the nations. Then, generations later, they began gathering back to Judea in increasing numbers. Israel was formed in a day, and Judah is still gathering there. At some point in the future, I suspect Gog will establish a power base in Turkey and ally itself with other Islamic nations. Once, it was a moderate country with a moderate military structure; however, it has been sliding quickly towards a religious base. Whether Russia or Turkey will be where the Beast comes from, I have no idea.

    Anyway, if one simply removes the one passage about the generation in which these things occur, the prophecies make much better sense.

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