WT 11/15/2014 - Who are the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation chapter 11?

by leaving_quietly 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  leaving_quietly

  Math has never been a strong suit of WTBTS.

  See the Question From Readers on page 30:

  "How long did this inspection and cleansing
  work take? It extended from 1914 to the early part
  of 1919. This period of time includes both the
  1,260 days (42 months) and the symbolic three
  and a half days referred to in Revelation chapter
  11."

  And the accompanying chart:

  

  Go here and try for yourself:

  http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html

  Or, if you don't want to:

  "from 1914" is when? Presumably, October, since that's when they say the Kingdom was born.

  Starting with October 1, 1914, adding 1260 days brings us to March 14, 1918.

  They view the 42 months (1260 days) as one time period, then another 3 1/2 days (this is symbolic, of course...)

  From that, they get to 1914.

  In order to do that, the 3 1/2 days would not follow the day for a year principle, otherwise, it would be ANOTHER 1,260 days, by the statement in the paragraph above and the chart on that page, which would bring us to August 25, 1921. But, they are not viewing this second 3 1/2 days as 3 1/2 years. Just what are they viewing it as? Who knows. It's "symbolic". If the 1,260 days is literal, then the 3 1/2 days should be literal, too, right? Oh, wait... WTBTS mixes up literal and symbolic/figurative whenever it suits them. But, let's say they are literal. This would make the full period of the 1,260 days plus 3 1/2 days equal to 1263.5 days which brings us to sometime on March 17, 1918.

  There is NO WAY to get from 1914 to 1919 using the math in Revelation 11.

  Am I wrong? Is my math off?
• 

  LostGeneration

  Looks right to me. So one reference of 3.5 years is literal and the next one a few versus later is figurative? Sheesh these guys have balls the size of basketballs with the way their fit the scriptures around their fairy tale agenda.

  Of course 1919 is probably what they want because that's when Boozeford got out of the slam right?
• 

  leaving_quietly

  *** w50 7/15 p. 217 par. 3 Postwar Enlargement of the Theocratic Organization ***
  So the enemy seized upon it as part of their proof that the Society’s president and other members of the organization closely associated with him were guilty of sedition against the government, and Brother Rutherford and seven others were railroaded off to federal penitentiary in the spring of 1918, under sentences of 80 years in prison, and without benefit of bail for their freedom till appeal to a higher court should be effected. After nine months in the penitentiary bail was granted them on March 21, 1919, and they were released.

  So, apparently, 3 1/2 days = 9 months. According to other sources, "spring of 1918" = "June 20, 1918" (w51 7/1 p. 409 par. 4) or 274 days. Thus, each "day" of the symbolic 3 1/2 days = 78.28571428571429 literal days.
• 

  Londo111

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7030iiaBU&list=UUnXY0-N67N4a5a8eKbar-iw
• 

  Londo111

  In regard the 1918 ‘martyrdom’ of the ‘two prophets’, nobody was actually killed, which is generally what a martyr is.

  So evidently, no prophets were harmed in the fulfillment of this prophesy.
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Londo, thanks for that. I like how you worked this, counting backward. I've seen your video before, so it's a helpful reminder.

  Not surprisingly, we have have yet another discrepency. The 1951 WT states the imprisonment was on June 20, 1918 while the Daniel's Prophecy book states June 21, 1918. In this prophecy, even a single day matters.

  From December 1, 1914 to 1260 days later brings us to May 14, 1918, over a month prior to imprisonment. The 1951 WT says they appeared in court on May 15, 1918.

  From December 31, 1914 to 1260 days later brings us to June 13, 1918, a week or maybe a eight days prior to imprisonment. Still, numbers not adding up.

  So evidently, no prophets were harmed in the fulfillment of this prophesy.

  LOL!
• 

  Londo111

  Thank you.

  The two prophets are now clearly represented, not as a nebulous body of ‘anointed’ as it was said before, but specifically, with Rutherford and friends, the 8 leaders who went to prison. After their release in 1919, they become the “Faithful Slave”.

  Of course, neither Rutherford or his companions are aware of such an appointment, for up until 1926, they teach that Pastor Russell is the Faithful Slave. And the leading ones which morph into the Governing Body are still unaware of such an appointment all the way up until 2012.
• 

  Apognophos

  Of course, neither Rutherford or his companions are aware of such an appointment, for up until 1926, they teach that Pastor Russell is the Faithful Slave.

  Also, because they're dead. Seriously, though, I sometimes wonder what Russell, Rutherford, et al. would think of the Society if they saw it now. Probably their first reaction would be, "It's 2014 and the end hasn't come yet?!"
• 

  givemejustalittlemoretime

  The two witnesses represent The Messiah before and after his resurrection
• 

  Vidqun

  This is one of the reasons I was disfellowshipped. When the elders and circuit overseer came to see me, I insisted that the Society's interpretation is wrong. 1) The beast about to ascend out of the abyss did not exist 1914-1918. The ineffectual League of Nations was only created in 1919. See Revelation book. 2) The trumpet blasts indicate sequence. The two witnesses are killed during the sixth trumpet blast, close to the end (the seventh). 3) Notice the name of the beast. According to their interpretation the beast is the League of Nations/United Nations. In Rev. 17 the beast is "about to ascend out of the abyss," indicating the League of Nations according to their theology. In Rev. 11 he kills the two witnesses after he ascended out of the abyss, pointing to the UN according to their theology. The UN did not exist 1914-1918. 3) During Word War I the witnessing work continued (see Proclaimers book). Well, the Society is never wrong, even when they are wrong.