Where was Satan when he sin??? If there was or is sin
in heaven, why would the earth be any different. Hello
Is or were there Sin in Heaven??
by jam 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
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jam
I may be reaching here, but did Jesus sin?
Of course not you may say. What about his crucifixion. We
are taught Jesus died because of the sin of humanity. The Gospels
indicate he lived life fully as an man with all the same temptations.
Matt.5:28, anyone who lusts in their heart has already committed adultery.
How is lusting in one's heart different than being tempted.
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NAVYTOWN
Asking if there is 'sin in Heaven' is the intellectual equivalent of asking 'Do zebras have past lives?' Both questions cannot be answered. The first question presumes that there really IS a 'Heaven', and the second question presumes that there are 'past lives'. Even quoting the Bible presumes that the Bible is true and has all the answers.
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jam
Navytown: Using only the bible,from the bible. Where was Satan when he sin???
For those that believe or presumes the Bible is true.LOL
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kaik
Angels according to OT have a free will, but lack a desire to sin. However, they may and choose to do so on their own will. Judaism does not know notion of original sin and believe that angels do sin and face punishment. Angels who destroyed Sodom were banned from entering Heavan for 120 years because they misrepresented God's judgement.
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BackseatDevil
The answer to your question depends on when you were born.
Early in bible history the Jews believed that the heavens (shamayimplural) was a firm object like a thick vault that held back water (which is why the sky was blue) and God sat on the other side of that. The heavens were only one layer of the grand cosmos. Each section of the cosmos and all the way down to under the earth had their own angels and spirit beings that had dominion, some good and some evil - everything linked together as one. The Jews had no concept of "heaven" as we know it, nor did they have a concept of Satan. Each nation had their own spirit being associated with it. So when nations went to war, the spirit beings went to war as well... and whoever won had the more powerful spirit. One had to make it through all these forces in order to reach god, you see.
In this, there is no "SIN" as we think of it today. The people of Israel had to follow rules as a culture to please YHWH, but the angels and demons of the cosmos were not under such restrictions... so what would they be sinning against? God didn't make a covenant with any of these beings... he made a covenant with Abraham, a man. The sprit realm was beyond that and not any concern for Abraham or his sons. They didn't know how it all worked, and they never asked. So there is no concept of sin regarding spirits at this time.
This concept traveled all the way up until the first century Christians. Paul in many of his letters reference this type of thinking (worshiping angels and such). It wasn't until later in the 4th century or so that heaven became sterile... white... cleaned. God had gotten rid of all the demons, cast them down to earth, etc. etc. that is found in the apocalyptic literature at the time (Revelation of John, Revelation of Peter, Enoch) and post-apocalyptic literature (1&2 Peter, Jude). At THAT time, the "heaven" that we think of today started to form, and after a few centuries heaven became an actual hope for the faithful (up until that time everyone was hoping for a mass resurrection of the body to Jesus... somehow - only martyrs went to Jesus in heaven directly). It was only after people took the book of Revelation According to John and applied his words used to describe Rome to describe a GREAT EVIL ANGEL who could get ANY ONE OF US that Satan as we know it was born. Evil was associated with earth (of course) and our current state, heaven was a place to aim for... holy and cleansed of sins. Once heaven became a destination after death for the masses, the idea of sin in heaven became unthinkable and had to be removed. Instead of the Jewish idea of spirit beings doing their thing... there was EVIL EVEYWHERE on earth, and the only freedom was in the bleached white robes of HEAVEN. At that time, Satan would have NOT sinned in heaven.
This especially became important during the Protestant Reformation when the Luther/Calvin movement in the 16th century had to give a more pure version of heaven, different than the corrupt Catholics. After that, the idea of sin in heaven would be heretical.
So to answer your question... There is no concept of spirit sins first, then Satan could of been in heaven when he "sinned" (maybe) if you lived in the 1st through 4th centuries, but after that up until now the answer is "no."
But give it another 500 years and that could change.
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bruh2012
All moral creatures have freedom of choice. Remember sin starts in your mind then spreads to the heart- so in reality sin is not a matter of location as it is a matter of thinking. The angel that became Satan had to have sinned to have established himself on the earth to not only see creation of man but to station himself somewhere to cause Adam and Eve to mess up.
The other theory could be that Satan was created to do bad- to be that evil one (the good verses evil concept)- just like Judas was born to live that one day to betray Jesus. YHWH doesnt do evil but since he creates evil- he could have just as well arranged the path for Satan to go rogue and be the evilness that makes him the God of this system.
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smiddy
Just as a human has the ability to commit an attrocity on one hand and do a life saving act on the other , exhibiting the power of good and evil in the one person , and man being made in GOD`s image , who`s to say GOD doesnt have those same attributes .?
The good side of GOD is Jehovah,Yahweh ,Allah ,etc. the bad side of GOD is Satan , Devil , Baal , etc.
Doesnt the bible say as much ? showing the two faces of GOD ?
smiddy
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leaving_quietly
"Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar′ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment" - 2 Pet 2:4
Now, I don't know if Jesus sinned, but of him this is stated:
"Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered." - Heb 5:8
Is there sin in heaven? Yes.
Is there death in heaven? Probably not like we know it. There is no record, that I'm aware of, of any angel who was put to death. The only record we see is of Satan being hurled into the lake of fire, which, according to Revelation, means the second death. (Rev 20:14)