Debunking the KCA

by Coded Logic 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    For those who haven’t encountered it before, the Kalam Cosmological Argument is a “proof” of Gods existence and goes as follows:

    P1.) Anything that begins to exist has a cause.

    P2.) The universe began to exist.

    C.) Therefore the universe has a cause.

    While, at first glance, the KCA seems reasonable enough we quickly realize that, with any sort of consideration, the argument fails on every possible level. In the following paragraphs we will consider the logic and and the science behind this topic.

    To begin with, the first problem here is, even granting the syllogism were valid, the conclusion doesn’t get you to a Creator. The KCA only gets us to a cause. While many will assert that God is that “cause” this cannot be supported because, in the absence of evidence, all Ad-Hocs are equally valid. That is to say, you cannot solve one mystery with another mystery. Nor can you explain one unknown by postulating the existence of another unknown. Saying that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was the “first cause” is equally valid/invalid as saying any other unknown was the first cause (big foot, mini mouse, pink unicorns, etc).

    The second problem is the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the first two premises. What applies to the parts of a whole does not necessarily apply to the whole itself. To explain what I mean by this consider the following statements:

    All sheep in the flock have a mother - therefore the flock must have a mother.

    All raindrops in the storm are pear shaped - therefore all rainstorms must be pear shaped.

    This is the exact same sort of bad inductive reasoning that is going on with the KCA: All things in the universe have a cause - therefore the universe must have a cause. Principles that apply to parts of the system do not necessarily apply to the entire system itself.

    However, the biggest problem with the KCA is that for a premise to support a conclusion - the premise must be known to be true. Premises cannot be hypotheticals or mere assertions. Rather, premises must be factual.

    And the first premise - everything that begins to exist has a cause - is demonstrably false. With one exception, everything in our universe is the rearrangement of energy. Stars, planets, animals, cars, tables, etc. don’t “begin to exist.” Rather, matter that is already in existence is repurposed. However, the one exception is known as Quantum Fluctuations. They are, quite literally, something from nothing.

    Those familiar with the First Law of Thermodynamics know that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Quantum Fluctuations do NOT violate this law. Rather, when they pop into existence they always do so in equal amounts of positive and negative energy. They were first predicted in 1948 by Hendrik Casimir (see Casimir Effect) and directly measured in 1997 by Steve Lamoreaux of the Los Almos National Laboratory. And Quantum Fluctuations are one of the key factors responsible for Cosmic Inflation.

    Even more interesting, is that when we measure how much energy is in our universe, accounting for all the positive and negative energy, it works out to zero. How does something come from nothing? Well zero is equal to zero. And -1+1=0. It doesn’t matter how complicated you make the equation. So long as it balances out in the end.

    Lastly, is the second premise - the universe began to exist. This is not known to be true. While we often refer to the initial moments of the Big Bang as the birth of our universe we don’t what happened before that. We don’t know if space time and energy existed prior to that point of if that really was the beginning. In the absence of that knowledge, the second premise cannot be used to support a conclusion. When we don’t know the answer to something we should say “I don’t know” instead of “hey, let’s make something up.”

    Anyway, hope this arms you intellectually if you ever come across the Kalam Cosmilogical Arguement. And hope you may have learened something you didn't know about our universe :)

    "The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true."

    - Carl Sagan

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    CL: The first problem here is that, even if the syllogism were valid, the conclusion doesn’t get you to a creator. The KCA only gets us to a cause.

    Bam!

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    Or, you could have just searched and found any of the hundreds of threads on this exact subject. Energy may not be created or destroyed, but it can be wasted (also, that's not what the First Law of Thermodynamics says).

  • opusdei1972
    opusdei1972

    Coded Logic Those familiar with the First Law of Thermodynamics know that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

    Viviane that's not what the First Law of Thermodynamics says

    This is the first law of Thermodynamics: ΔU = W - Q , where ΔU is the change of the internal energy of a system, W is the work done by the system, and Q is the heat received by the system. If W were the work done to the system, then W < 0, and Q < 0, if the system loses heat. This law is a consequence of the principle of the conservation of energy. So, if you are familiar with this law, then you know (unless you don't understand the equation) that energy must be preserved in thermodynamic processes. This seems to be what Coded Logic meant, doesn't it?

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    So, if you are familiar with this law, then you know (unless you don't understand the equation) that energy must be preserved in thermodynamic processes. This seems to be what Coded Logic meant, doesn't it?

    You're quite correct, of course, that's exactly what the first law of thermodynamics says. That's not what Coded Logic said, as you aptly pointed out.

    As to whether or not that's what he meant, it's utterly irrelevant to my point, but, thanks for doing a little extra leg work to show that I was 100% correct in what I said.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    Coded logic, well done for your opening post. It's clear to see you have done some extensive reading since your awakening and have a firm view about the existence of God. I have come to the conclusion that there is no proof as to the existence or non existence of a creator. It cannot be proven either way. But to philosophise over these matters can be interesting.

    Thanks for your OP, but I however still believe in a creator.

    Kate xx

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic
    Viviaine is, as always, correct. The first Law of Thermodynamics (aka conservation of energy) only address' energy transitioning from one state to another state. It says nothing about the creation of energy.

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