by sowhatnow 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
i dont get it.
who is being spoken about? first of all wouldnt moses be greater that john the baptist? after all there was an awful lot more written about him ,
and very little written about john the baptist.
who is least in the heavens is greater than john, ? so if I go to heaven im least? and yet im greater than john? huh?
its not jesus, hes not least in anything, hes greater than john,
im pretty confused.
The least of the heaven is being used as a perspective. Meaning that even if you were to take the least of the heavens, they would be greater than John. This is to show that no man would ever achieve the greatness of any spiritual creature. Even the most insignificant of them would be greater than the greatest human. If you happen to go to heaven, then I guess, based on the scriptures, you would become greater than John.
You're probably familiar with the JW interpretation of it - John (since he died prior to Jesus' death) was not of the annointed. Anyone who's annointed is a "greater" one than even John, just by virtue of the fact that they're annointed.
From a more objective perspective, I'd guess that this would probably be interpreted as saying that anyone who is currently in heaven is better off than John (who, at the time, was still alive on earth) even though John was a great man indeed.
In any event, it's all just a collection or random crap that sounded good to someone 2 thousand years ago so sometimes it's just not going to add up.
well, most of the bible makes no sense to me. lol.
That whole passage of scripture from Matthew 11:7 to Matthew 11:15 is about using John's noteriety to sell the appeal of being in the kingdom of the heavens.
In verse 11, Jesus is essentially saying to his audience: "But as impressive as John is, keep in mind that a less impressive one in heaven is still greater than John is."
Upon hearing this some of Jesus' disciples might be saying to themselves: "Well if John is the greatest of those born of women and he's still inferior to a lesser one in heaven, then who am I to be exerting myself to enter this kingdom? Who could possibly qualify? I don't stand a chance!"
Jesus tries to thwart such likely negative reasoning with his statement in verse 12:
"But from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it." In other words: "despite your thinking that's its impossible to qualify many men have being seeking it and they will succeed. So don't think that its impossible for you to qualify. Just exert yourself"
So Jesus was essentially using the fame of John to impress upon his audience that being in the kingdom of the heavens is something that they should crave even more than John's fame and spiritual standing. It's as if he's saying: 'You think John is impressive, do you? Well then reach out for the kingdom of the heavens because the glory and favor of a lesser one in such a position is even greater than theglory and favor that John currently has. So reach out for it and you can have it!"
Watchtower has overthought the verse to make it seem like Jesus was saying John wouldn't be in heaven. But that's not the point Jesus was making. If John would go to heaven he would then be greater than he was when on earth. So the comparison can't be seen as an indication or revelation that John wouldn't go to heaven. Jesus was comparing the standing of someone already in heaven with John's then impressive standing on earth. To illustrate the folly of Watchtower's reasoning. Imagine if Jehovah had told Samuel that the glory that the glory and raiment of a king is greater than that of the shepherdboy David. Would that have meant that David would not be appointed as king? No.
Not difficult.....John was the precursor, the announcer of Jesus, the messiah. So, he was a BIG DEAL in the fulfillment of messianic prophecy. As great as he was, though, he was still simply gonna be another recipient of salvation and eternal reward. If you notice the context of Matthew, there are those that approach Jesus, sent by John. John was a BIG DEAL to them. He was their teacher, much in the same way as Jesus had his followers. So, they ask him a question and that question originated with John, in other words, JOHN wanted to know, "Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect another?"(Matt 11:3) You see, as much as John knew about Jesus, he wasn't sure...
Jesus, then, in order to solildfy his Messiahship and help those followers of John, said what he said in Matthew 11:11. In essence Jesus is saying, "John, as great as he is to you guys and in the fulfillment of my messiahship, he is still no greater than any one of you who accept the kingdom. In fact, he will be the least...."
As much as the ORG tries to paint the picture that he will be part of those that get resurrected to earth and thus lower than anyone in heaven, the New Testament does not speak of any such thing. If you are a Christian there is one hope....go to heaven that's it.
i wonder why there are no records in the bible of what John did ? after all he was supposed to prepare the way for jesus, good enough to even baptise, youd think there would be something in there about what he taught or something, because even the bible says that John had followers even after jesus was baptised and doing his ministry.
oh well, i try not to worry, im doing what i know to be right and Im sure thats all that matters!
Keep in mind that when Jesus preached the "Kingdom", he meant its tangible, imminent appearance in his own time. Jesus continued the work of his cousin John, even following John's example of baptising people.
This passage depicts Jesus as a cutting, critical, cynical person, including towards John's followers. Jesus criticises them for doubting him and he criticises the people in no uncertain terms for their attitudes.
Doug
ok, new can of worms,
jesus preached the kingdom, but were led to believe by the writter of corinthians,
that we cant preach a different message
that all we need to do is believe on the lord and well be saved.
[ jws preach the kindgom of jehovah, which is why so many people think they dont believe in jesus.]
doesnt say anything about getting baptised by water,
because i think that baptism was for the nation israel to prove they accepted Jeusus as thier savior[repent and be baptised]
ill perhaps post this for all to answer on i never did think that we were to continue in water baptism.
