Spiritually Dead Children

by suavojr 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    This is a gem... Charles Sinutko had great skills at parenting

    You can download from here, http://da.getmyip.com/

    The pale horse of death had just ridden again. And following closely, Hades was about to open up its mouth and swallow a young man. With our spiritual eyes, let’s picture this part of history in the account of the physician, Luke. If you would like, turn to the 7 th chapter. Here we open another page in the spectacular ministry of Jesus. Verse 11: “Following closely he traveled to a city called Nain, and his disciples and a great crowd were traveling with him.“ Yonder a procession descends from the city and upon a bier, which is a slab upon which a dead body is carried, we see the spoils of the dread conqueror, death. A victim on the way to the tomb. Verse 12: ”As he (Jesus) got near the gate of the city, why, look! there was a dead man being carried out, the only-begotten son of his mother. Besides, she was a widow. A considerable crowd from the city was also with her.” So we have one procession in a sad somber mood confronted with another procession. This procession following Jesus was buoyant and happy because they just saw him heal a servant of an army officer who was sick to the point of death. No doubt they are curious what Jesus is going to do now. We fix our eyes upon the one in the center, a man in whom lowliness was always evident and yet majesty never wanting. Verse 13: “When the Lord caught sight of her, he was moved with pity for her, and he said to her, “Stop weeping.” With that he approached and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still, and he said: “Young man, I say to you, Get up!” And the dead man sat up and started to speak, and he gave him to his mother.” Death had now met its destroyer. The battle was short and decisive, no blows struck, death was already finished with its utmost. And with a touch the bier is subdued and with eight words Jesus takes the spoil, this dead son, from its captor and death flies defeated from the gates of Nain while Mt. Tabor and Mt. Hermon look down on the scene and a host of angels, no doubt.

    Now this remarkable event was serving for a millennium and more, almost 2,000 years now, as a lesson in hope and in faith on how Jesus can raise the dead. However, should it also present for us a lesson what Jesus could do for those who are spiritually dead? Would you say it would be easier to raise up one literally dead or one who is spiritually dead? Are there any of us who do not know of such a dead soul, probably dead young man, dead young woman, spiritually doing nothing. This dead young man was being carried out to his burial. It caused his mother’s heart to burst with grief. This was her only son and Jesus interestingly was not unmoved by her plight. We saw that in verse 13. He approaches her, he speaks with her, and it says he was moved with pity. Is he any less attached to our circumstances today? How many of you mothers and fathers have lost children who have died spiritually, those who have left the truth or become inactive, even disfellowshipped? Is Jesus less concerned for you or would you say he is also moved with pity for you? There may have been a time when your child went with you into the house of God but now they find pleasure in a very different atmosphere. Beyond your control. they seek release into Satan’s world thinking they are now free. You never wished to deprive them of their liberty but to teach them the truth, to set them free from the sorrow that’s now theirs and the devastation perhaps to come. There have been many a ________ in our circuits, jubilant over the early course of their children only to wish later to God those children had never been born because of the agony you now bear. And the grief is even greater when we can have no fellowship with them any more....any more than that mother at Nain could have no communion with her son for he was dead. You young boys and girls in our audience now, you probably cannot know how your parent’s heart leaps for joy when you have a part in the theocratic ministry school or they see you speak for Jehovah God at the doors. But the real question is: Is it in your heart or do you do this merely to get attention, to satisfy your parents? Are you doing it to please Jehovah God? Woe to those of you who have no heart for your mother or your father or the Living God.

    How do you as parents carry and handle that heavy load of worry and grief? Well, there are some ways that it can be done. Genesis chapter 23 perhaps was one of them that could be employed. It was employed by Abraham in a literal way. In Genesis chapter 23 verse 4 he says, “Give me the possession of the burial place among you that I may bury my dead out of my sight.” The less he had to see the evidence of their death, the less he grieved. With us, some of us might try to put them out of our mind or out of our sight...but that’s not really too easy to do, is it? They are our flesh. They are our blood. Some counsel is found for us in Jude and, we feel very appropriate counsel, because we have sat with hundreds of you in this condition and predicament and it has helped hundreds of persons to get their thinking straight. Because being mothers and fathers we are prone not to think rationally when it comes to our children and we are prone all to often to listen to their stories and to their castigations and blame. Jude verse 19 sets us straight: “These are the ones that make separations, animalistic men, not having spirituality.” Who caused this break? We know what the youngsters say. Well, the elders this and the elders that and the Watchtower this and Br. So and So and Sr. So and So........NO! THEM! And we as parents must recognize it is THEM, not the Watchtower, not the elders, not anyone in the congregation. If we listen to that stuff, we’re disloyal to God’s arrangement and we’re siding in with an evildoer. That’s why they’re disfellowshipped. The elders didn’t go to bed with that woman, the elders didn’t go to bed with that girl, they didn’t do the stealing, they didn’t do the lying. Your child did and we’ve got to remember that. The scripture says “these are the ones that caused the separations, animalistic men, not having spirituality.” Let’s let the blame rest where it is. And then the final (word for final curtain) curtain, the shutdown and the cop out in modern vernacular when they said, “And if you had only.” You see they want to blame you and, sadly enough, all too often you take that too. You start carrying guilt around yourselves. If only we had done this, if only we had done that...is that true? Think about it for a moment before we read on in Jude.

    It’s very likely your mother and father weren’t even one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Would you have had more concern for them and how they felt than your child does? You hear stories of the mafia on how these lads grew up in the mafia, did all sorts of awful things but they never wanted mother to know, or father....why? They cared for their mother and father. We have children who go out and do things and just fling it in our face and not even care.....either like it or don’t like it. Do you feel that’s a good boy, that’s a good girl? How could we say that? Are we like Eli? Remember Eli’s sons were fornicating in the temple of Jehovah and he started excusing them before Jehovah and Jehovah allowed Eli to drop over and die because he would not accept it. When our children try to blame us, then you know they’re bad because they’re blaming you as a parent. Did you teach them they should fornicate, they should commit adultery, they should lie and....No! You taught them the truth. Now you didn’t do it perfectly, you may not have had that study every week, maybe you didn’t set an example here or there....but they knew the difference between right and wrong. Why are we carrying the guilt around? If I had only done this or that? Is it possible it is just their heart condition? Again Jude says “these are the ones that cause the separation” not the elders, not Br. and Sr. So and So, not the Watchtower, not the Bible, not you, The scripture simply says they did not have spirituality, they were animalistic in their behavior.

    What are you to do? Verse 20 makes it very clear what we are to do as parents: “Keep yourselves in God’s love.” Isn’t that interesting? This is your assignment now....”keep yourselves in God’s love.” You didn’t marry your son, you didn’t marry your daughter...you married each other...just keep yourselves now in the truth. Do the best you can and not be negative about it. It goes on and says, “wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view.” If there’s anything good there, Jehovah is very interested in retrieving it and bringing them back. Verse 22 says, “Continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others but doing so with fear while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh.” So we might not like what they did....no, we must hate what they did. We’ll still be merciful towards them when they show repentance to Jehovah and they come back to us as the prodigal son did when he said, “Father, I’ve sinned against heaven and you.” And you notice in what order the prodigal son put it? He first had to recognize that he had sinned against God and then he realized what pain he had brought his father. So twice in Jude, what are we to do? Verses 20 and 21 shows we must keep ourselves in God’s love.

    On the other hand, if you’re a youngster here tonight showing a defiant disposition....Satanic spirit just exudes out of your countenance. And we see them everywhere we go, we’re not blind, any of us here. Go to a district convention, even here we see young persons just bored out of their minds, so disinterested in what’s going on and defiance and a hard look all over their faces. If there are any like that in our midst, we must think how can we ever disregard the son God gave for us? We say we’re one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. That blood has been spilled for us if we’re baptized. Would we carry on in a way of life that is now going to tramp on it? Have you no feelings for anyone but yourself? Is your heart made of stone?

    Ezekiel 9, we’re familiar with the account, describes God sending angels with slaughtering weapons. For those of you who are defiant, there will be no more reasoning. It will be over. The angels have been commissioned at the great battle of Armageddon to crush the heads of those who love the wicked system of things rather than sighing and groaning over the detestable things being done in it. And interestingly enough, those being slain by those angels with slaughtering weapons...if you will look at chapter 8 verse 17 of Ezekiel...notice who is going to be slain. Is it just those people outside? Jehovah speaks to Ezekiel 8:17 “Have you seen [this], O son of man?” In other words, “Do you see what is happening and you’re doing nothing...or you’re taking sides...or you’re excusing what they have done here by saying they’re good people?” Jehovah says, “Is it such a light thing to the house of Judah to do the detestable things that they have done here, that they have to fill the land with violence and that they should offend me again, and here they are thrusting out the shoot to my nose?” What does that mean? Jehovah says, “Son of man, do you take it lightly they have thrust the shoot in my nose?” If you have a Bible with a footnote, you’ll see the shoot represents the male reproductive organs. This is associated then with immoral behavior. And the way that Jehovah views an immoral young man or an immoral young woman who knows the truth...is they are just thrusting the shoot in his nose. They are behaving in such a vile manner and do not care what he thinks, they might as well fling their behavior in his face.

    Now we as parents who excuse what our children do that is bad and for which they are disfellowshipped, we would better be careful to look at things in Jehovah’s eyes. They are not good boys and good girls when they thrust the shoot in Jehovah’s nose. Is it such a light thing Jehovah says? Do you look at it that way? There is a place for incorrigible ones and we do not dare stand at the entrance of Gehenna, the place where those driven from the presence of Jehovah Holy Place will soon enter. If we side in with them, how will Jehovah judge us? We know you melt when they say, “I love you, Mom, I love you Dad.” But do not forget they hated the law and they hated your Father and his teaching or they would change their course. You say, “They didn’t mean to do what they did.” Well, if that’s the case and if there were mitigating circumstances and if they fell into a pattern and they are really good...let them prove it and come back and prove loyalty to the God whom you love. “Well, if only I had told them this or I had said...” Wait a minute. They have heard and renounced the passionate warnings of Jeremiah, the wonderful promises of Isaiah, the invitation of Jesus to take life’s waters, they have declined Jehovah’s appeal, “You must choose life,” and yet have brazenly rejected it all. What could you have said that would have been any better or more effective than Jehovah God, His son, and these great prophets? Why would we continue to excuse their course until they have said “I have sinned against heaven and you.”

    Now, something to think about that may very well cheer us. We read an account at the beginning of this discussion for a reason. How is it that Jesus arrived at the very hour the widow was leaving the city for the burial of her dead son? How do you coincide a trip walking about 25 miles to arrive at this very moment? He ascends the hill to this little village and meets the dead son just before he is taken and sealed in a vault. A little earlier and the boy might not even have been dead yet. Is this an accident in history or was it an occasion to glorify Jehovah’s name with this miracle and instill faith and hope in us? Jesus is still our yoke partner and he is not oblivious to the pain of faithful co-workers. Just as his eyes singled out that grieving mother out of a crowd...no doubt he can single you out even not out of a crowd mourning over your children and he sees your despair and your grief. And does he not say the same again as he did in Luke 7:13? And moved with pity for her he says, “Stop weeping.” Do you not suppose if there is a way to recover your son or your daughter, the Fine Shepherd is not going to bring that plan back in???? If we thought even for a moment that we might care more for our children than the one who died for them? Let us take heart, dismiss all unbelieving fear, and that is what we may be demonstrating rather than implicit confidence and faith. When Jesus touched the bier, those who were carrying it the scripture says stood still and they didn’t say a word.

    Today your young man or woman may be carried a bit further by the carriers of their bier, their associates in the world. But our Master can by his mysterious power make the bearers stand still, the evil influences becoming powerless. When these men stood still there was a hush, the disciples stood around Jesus, the mourners stood around and surrounded the widow, the two crowds faced each other. Jesus and the dead man were in the center. The widow pushed away her veil and gazed through her tears wondering, no doubt, what was coming. And in a silence still as death itself, Jesus says, “Young man, I say to you, Get up!” And instantly the corpse received the spark of life and he was rescued from the jaws of the grave. One for whom there appeared no hope is now alive. Jesus spoke with the young man directly even though he was dead. When they’ve learned enough through their pain and their suffering, will Jesus yet speak to your son or your daughter who appear to have no trace of Jehovah’s spirit of life? To be sure, he can touch them with holy spirit at a time he deems worthy, when it will not be unproductive, when he knows they will respond. He is more anxious to rescue them from the body undergoing the death than you are. He spoke to a dead man and was heard. What his own mother’s voice wished to do, Jesus could do....bring back her son. In an instant of remorse and repentance, a scripture can be revived in your child’s heart, a divine flash can penetrate their breast with a new feeling, a new love, new hopes, new life, passing over from death to life as it were. The sheet of death drawn from their face as from the face of the only-begotten son of his mother. How happy it will make Christ Jesus to say, “Receive your son, receive your daughter.”

    And until such times should there be, let us remember this literal event and be of the same mind of those who witnessed it, never forgetting they went about telling everybody, the scripture says, of what Jesus had done. And we can go about our business of preaching the good news. Some of you boys here, you sons, you can hardly know how you’ve cut your mother to the heart by your apathy, your indifference, your lack of excitement over the truth, how her nights have been sleepless over you because you have not loved her God. You should be able to tell; just look at her sunken eyes and her fleeting youth. And daughters, can you not know the stabbing pain in the heart of your father who once viewed you as a beautiful and untarnished virgin and hoping you are going to stay the same? Or will you stained the image you could have in his eyes? Can’t you see his knowing sorrow, anxiety, countenance? We charge you by the love you might still yet have left in your hearts to cherish your parents and not cast them or their God aside for people in this system who will only betray you and prove to be rotten and go down at Armageddon with that. That is the other alternative and to us that is no alternative at all. Satan and his companions have for millenniums been fooling people like you who lack experience and you’re next in line if you’re not careful. On the other hand, how wonderful it could be to have a couple of years left at home. Proverbs 4:1-4 says, “prove to be a real son to your father, a tender and only one before your mother.” Wouldn’t it be much better than them remembering some recalcitrant, stubborn, unreasonable youngster who is now married and left home....or to remember the most wonderful years of the life they had with you before you left? They had a real son, a real daughter, who appreciated at least what they had tried to do even though they didn’t do it perfectly. We all charge you seek the God of your father and the God of your mother, repent, turn around, be a real son to them and, more importantly, a servant that pleases God. And as Jesus said to those young ones he raised from the literally dead, he says to you who up to now have just proven spiritually dead: “Young man, I say to you, Get up! Young girl, I say to you, Get up!” And you too, your spirit can return and you can rise and prove to somebody you’re alive, spiritually. And Jehovah can infuse you with such joy and fullness of life you can’t even imagine now, he can bring you back from the dead as it were. And then you can become part of an earthwide camaraderie that is astounding the world and even ourselves...thousands and thousands of young men and women who praise God and that makes us happy.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Wow, that's a heaping helping of guilt, isn't it?

    You hear stories of the mafia on how these lads grew up in the mafia, did all sorts of awful things but they never wanted mother to know, or father....why? They cared for their mother and father. We have children who go out and do things and just fling it in our face and not even care.....either like it or don’t like it. Do you feel that’s a good boy, that’s a good girl?

    [...]

    Some of you boys here, you sons, you can hardly know how you’ve cut your mother to the heart by your apathy, your indifference, your lack of excitement over the truth, how her nights have been sleepless over you because you have not loved her God. You should be able to tell; just look at her sunken eyes and her fleeting youth. And daughters, can you not know the stabbing pain in the heart of your father who once viewed you as a beautiful and untarnished virgin and hoping you are going to stay the same?

    Parents are always inclined to worry about their kids out there in the big wide world; many already have trouble accepting that their kids are going to grow up and lose their innocence. A talk like this just makes it worse.

    Also, how dare these kids think for themselves and lead their own lives unashamed? Granted, some JW kids do simply rebel for the sake of rebelling, but Sunutko was not exactly giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. He paints everyone with the same broad brush.

    I think what bothers me is that, if the kids know they have good reasons to leave, they won't be bothered to hear something like this, but it makes the burden on the parents far worse. How many parents of children who left must have been in tears throughout the talk?

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    Emotional abuse. Horrible, horrible emotional abuse.

  • tresdecu
    tresdecu

    "...jubilant over the early course of their children only to wish later to God those children had never been born because of the agony you now bear. And the grief is even greater when we can have no fellowship with them any more...."

    Imagine wishing to son or daughter were never born, simply because they were smart enough not to want to be a JW.

    I need to puke now.

  • Separation of Powers
    Separation of Powers

    Thanks for posting this gem!!!

    I was only familiar with the fiasco that is "stay alive till 1975" from this guy.

    He is probably long dead now.....what was his name again....SuNUTCASE...oh yeah, that's it.

    "wish later to God those children had never been born..." what a wackjob!

    Just proves what Paul said, "Having NO NATURAL AFFECTION..."

  • sowhatnow
    sowhatnow

     I  Dont believe the term spiritually dead is a real situation. in the bible only those who god chose were spiritually alive, all others were dead, spiritually, after you accepted the truth of jesus then you were spiritually alive.

    nor is there as such thing as spiritually weak.

    its all made up. you either have faith and believe that Jesus is Gods son, or you dont .  any other application to me seems to be for the purpose of gaining free labor.

  • MissFit
    MissFit

    I am curious  about the date & venue of this talk.   Was this given at a convention ?  Was this talk also given by others?  

    I think this talk is very enlightening.   It explains how otherwise  loving and intelligent parents can be manipulated into shunning their children.

    The parents are to blame their children and then treat them as if they are dead because if the Elders say they deserve it then it must be so.

    Where is the love?

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