QUESTION OF THE WEEK: "Was Jesus a person of FAITH?"

by Terry 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Terry

  You are probably wondering if I've lost my mind with a question like this~!

  There is a method to my madness, however.

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  Here is where this query originated; follow closely and comment. . .

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  FAITH is clearly connected to HOPE. But, there is a distinction with a difference.

  How so?

  FAITH is a single-minded certainty without proof which does not entertain the possibility of failure.

  HOPE is an optimism carried along by positive thinking--but--with the awareness things may not work out ideally.

  A harsher, more pragmatic way of saying it:

  FAITH borders on obsessive delusion while HOPE is more clear-headed because it does not INSIST on excluding disproof.

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  If you can accept my definitions and the distinctions cited, please consider the topic question in that narrow context.

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  1. If Jesus KNEW, from the experience of having been in heaven, His death would lead to resurrection and installment as King--

  FAITH would not have been a component of his motives, personality, and actions.

  On the other hand,

  2. If Jesus only gradually came to a kind of interior mental awareness (epiphany) of His identity and decided to act on it fully

  (suicidal as it was) then He would be a person of FAITH.

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  WHICH one is it?

  "My God, my god; why have you forsaken me," sounds very much like loss of faith under duress.

  The prayer in Gethsemane, "Let this cup pass from my lips. . .,"sounds like faith under duress.

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  WHY DO I ASK THIS QUESTION?

  This uncertainty, doubt, momentary wavering must have confused early Christians who thought of Jesus as demi-god, or God himself.

  There were many, many opinions. There were many writings. There was considerable ongoaing debate and discussion.

  I believe this mixture of viewpoints seeped into the New Testament.

  This would explain why BOTH Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian texts are present.

  This would explain why three hundred years passed and during the Nicene Council the bishops were STILL arguing.

  Even after a Trinity was agreed upon, there were temporary reversals; first Arius, then Athanasius prevailing and finding favor.

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  Rather than discuss THE TRINITY--please . . .

  Answer the topic question in this rather narrow way.
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  runForever

  If Jesus was in heaven and knew things would be completed (on earth) why worry?

  Possibly he knew that certain things had to happen but didn't know exactly how they were to happen or the intensity of those things.
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  RichardHaley

  Faith and Hope both can be based on evidence or fact just as easily as fantasy.

  I have faith in my truck because it has never let me down in the past. I hope it continues to do so.

  As far as Jesus is concern... who knows?
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  Terry

  If Jesus were acting out of certainty he would not be the pound-for-pound equivalent of a disobedient Adam because Adam

  was merely pursuing equality with God. Colossians informs us this was not a consideration of Jesus.

  Adam's plunge into disobedience was an ambitious seizing of the opportunity to "be like God."
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  Crazyguy

  I find it interetsting that in the days of old including the time they say jesus existed, no one needed faith. Miracles and prophecies came true to convince them. Only now thousands of years later when there is no proof of jesus or god that we need faith.
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  Terry

  I find the level of naivete among the unlettered and simple people in Jesus' day more of an explanation for belief

  than almost anything else.

  Jews as a nation were no longer sovereign. Their sacred language had been replaced by Greek. A Hasmonean despot

  ruled as king and he collaborated with the pagan Romans. The idea of Messiah seemed more and more appealing

  as a way out. Your fellow countrymen tell you about miracles and they seemed totally convinced. Who are you to disagree?

  And so it goes . . .

  And so it went.

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  Faith is taking the first step even when you can’t see the whole staircase.

  Martin Luther King Jr.

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  If Jesus knew 'from the beginning who would betray him," can we say Jesus saw the whole staircase?
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  runForever

  If the idea of Jesus as messiah was so appealing to the majority jews as you say why did and do most of them reject him?
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  Heaven

  If the idea of Jesus as messiah was so appealing to the majority jews as you say why did and do most of them reject him?

  runForever, this is an excellent question and one that I have thought a lot about in my journey out of 'faith'. My conclusion is that most Jews thought he was a nutball. Just like today, if someone tells us they are Jesus and the Messiah, we dismiss them as delusional whack jobs needing treatment.
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  designs

  The Question(Faith and Hope) and the arguements about it often revolved round who Believers thought was speaking- the human or the divine being when doubts and uncertainty emerged.
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  Terry

  Runforever: If the idea of Jesus as messiah was so appealing to the majority jews as you say why did and do most of them reject him?

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  I'd answer that by quoting an old song title: "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody ever wants to die."

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  The idea of a Messiah has to be embodied to take on reality.

  Each person has a standard inside their head of what this embodiment should be so as to recognize when he appears.

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  I recall standing in a Las Vegas casino and seeing Sylvester Stallone walking by. I had imagined Rocky to be a kind of

  imposing giant. Instead, this was a little guy almost a foot shorter than I was. His suit was baggy, too.

  This DISPARITY between my image of him and the reality did not match.

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  Besides Jews in Jesus day were entirely unlike Jews today.

  Even among Christians today, with 40,000 Christian denominations, each has its own conception of who or what JESUS actually is.