Two Witness Rule Revisited

by dungbeetle 9 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    ...the dungbeetle way.

    For the benefit of all the gazillion 'incoming wounded' we have here at JW.COM, here is the Watchtower molestation issue in a 'Dungbeetle' nutshell. And just to be fair, I will only deal with that information generally available to JW's. The internal Watchtower documents (BOE and Personal letters from Watchtower) are extremely revealing, but they are not available generally to JW's, let alone the public.

    1)Much before 1985, an adult JW having raped or molested a child, even a very young one, wasn't considered important enough to devote much time and space in Watchtower's literature to the subject.

    2)In 1985, in response I understand to a series of scandals that rocked Bethel and are documented elsewhere, Watchtower comes out with this gem:

    Child Molesting
    You CAN Protect Your Child

    While generally this contains good information, this article OBVIOUSLY is directed at an INNOCENT PARENT. This article does NOTHING to help a JW child who is suffering present abuse at the hands of a JW parent. It does NOTHING to help other JW's become alert to the signs of abuse of another fellow adherent, so they can see the signs and intervene BEFORE there are more victims or before the victim is irreparably physically harmed or even is murdered or commits suicide.

    3)Next came Watchtower 11/1/95, likely in response to incidents occuring before the courts, some of which are STILL in litigation. While the title is "Comfort for those with a stricken spirit" the content is anything but.

    Consider this statement: "The faithful and discreet slave" has published information to help handle the spiritual and emotional hurt caused by child abuse."

    NO IT DID NOT. Pray more, go out in field service, study the bible more. Go to elders who can do nothing except exhort your molester to repent, or better yet appoint him to better privileges of service.

    Wathctower's advice: "Put on the complete armor of God".

    Consider this:

    During the time that the one experiencing "memories" is healing, awkward situations may arise. For example, an individual may have vivid mental images of being molested by someone he or she sees every day. No rules can be laid down for handling this. "Each one will carry his own load." (Galatians 6:5) Sometimes one may feel that a relative or a member of one's immediate family is involved. Remember the dubious nature of some "repressed memories" when it comes to identifying the one suspected of being a perpetrator. In such a situation, as long as the matter has not been firmly established, keeping contact with the family—at least by occasional visits, by letter, or by telephone—would show that one is trying to follow a Scriptural course.—Compare Ephesians 6:1-3.

    What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter.

    Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be! If there is a confession, the two elders can handle matters further in accordance with Scriptural principles.

    If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person.

    Even if more than one person "remembers" abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence.

    Ultimately, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus render everlasting judgment in justice.—1 Corinthians 4:5.

    When dedicated souls endure in the face of great physical or emotional pain, what an evidence it is of their inner strength and love for God! And what a testimony to the power of Jehovah's spirit to sustain them!—Compare 2 Corinthians 4:7.

    4)NEXT UP:WT 1/1/97

    Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this.

    If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting.

    Hence, a child molester is subject to severe congregational discipline and restrictions. It is not his status as an authority figure that should be of concern but, rather, the unblemished purity of the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:6; 2 Peter 3:14.

    If a child molester sincerely repents, he will recognize the wisdom of applying Bible principles...Further, he will surely thank Jehovah for the greatness of His love, as a result of which a repentant sinner, such as he is, can still worship our holy God and hope to be among "the upright" who will reside on earth forever.—Proverbs 2:21.

    5)So up untill recently, no information was given IN THE WATCHTOWER to the JW's what to do about child molestation in their congregations.

    While making a bif deal about child molesters not having privileges in the congregation, how does wathctower go about identifying a molester?

    a) two or three witnesses to the SAME EVENTS. Too absurd for words.

    b) accuser must personally confront abuser. Too absurd for words.

    c) untrained elders with zero zilch years of training and experience in matters of child molestation and abuse survivor counseling then decide if (a) accuser is telling the truth (b) accused is guilty or innocent. Too absurd for words.

    Just this past week, Watchtower suddenly switches gears and says, in contravention of earlier WRITTEN POLICY "Oh, it's okay to use two witness two act rule with regard to child molesting"

    AS tho it had been okay all along, which we can see it wasn't.

    succintly:

    1) Two witness two act rule. Two different witnesses see two differnet acts, that person can be "congregationally sanctioned." Smoking is the common example given. Elders are specifically forbidden, in writing, to apply this rule to child molestation accusations against an active JW. [/]

    2) Two witness one act rule. . Pretty much used for child molestation. Has been used in the past for establishing adultery or homosexuality. This is the level of proof a victim must meet before an accused molester is even 'approached' by the elders.

    3) One witness rule I am not speaking here of confession. In this case, some statement by a person is construed by the elders against that person. A woman who is raped and did not scream is the classic example, a policy in effect since 1965 at least.

    As Watchtower points out, [b] their primary concern is the reputation of the congregation, and the spiritual recovery of the abuser

    .

    Watchtower's supposed and professed concern for the welfare of the children first is EXTREMELY recent; say, the last few weeks.

    HO HUM JUST ANOTHER DAY IN A CULT.

    BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy
    Hence, a child molester
    is subject to severe congregational discipline and restrictions. It is not his status as an authority figure that should be of concern
    but, rather, the unblemished purity
    of the congregation
    .—1 Corinthians 5:6; 2 Peter 3:14.

    Every time I read that it takes me back to the dark ages when a female or a child that had been violated was looked down upon and considered dirty and soiled not worthy of respect. It was ok to pity them but thats about it.


    ........................It's the silence between the notes, that make the music.................
  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    dung,

    I need a Point of Clarification.

    There is this stupid May 24, 2002 letter from our heros in New York that suggest the two Witnesses can be two Credible Witnesses to two separate but similar crimes.

    Of course if elder John is raping little Sue and there are no other similar cases made public or there are no other cases, little Sue is "SOL".

    But does the above comment change your post?

    hawk

    p.s. - I was upset our phone call got cut short. I hope we can talk more sometime. Thanks for phoning.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    My reason for this post was to emphasis a couple of things, one of which is the society's plan to pretend there was NEVER a two-witness-one-act-rule.

    For the rest of my life, and maybe longer depending on which religious belief I end up holding to, I intend to remind people what this religion does to women and children until the law, or the fear of the law, makes them change.

    God bless the USA!!!

    Anyway, the info in this post is based on Watchtower literature from 1985 to 1997. I let others do the rest.

    BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    ahhh - now I understand.

    Much like when I read the Fitzwater letter of 1999 that clearly states there must be 2 witnesses to see the crime.

    hawk

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : the dungbeetle way.

    Heh, heh. Great post!

    The Farkel way:

    Little five-year-old Susie comes crying to her dub mother.

    Susie: "Mommy, grandpa put his hands down there and it hurt me. It really hurt a lot. Then, the next time he did that he also put his wee-wee in my mouth and this yucky stuff came out. I don't like it. Please make him stop."

    Mother: "Did he REALLY do that, Susie?"

    Susie: "Yes, Mommy. He really DID."

    Mother: "I'll go see the elders about it, then."

    Later...

    Mother: "Susie, I talked to the elders and they talked to your grandpa and your grandpa said he never did anything like that. Are you sure YOU are not LYING Susie?"

    Susie, in tears: "No, Mommy, I'm NOT lying."

    Mother: "Well, Jehovah's organzation through the Watchtower magazine has told us they can do nothing more, and we have to continue treating grandpa like an innocent person."

    Mother: Susie we can be thankful we have Jehovah's Organization to help us deal with matters like this. Let me show you something from Jehovah's Organization and the Bible that you need to do. Here in the Watchtower magazine it is talking about that very problem you think you have:

    " Sometimes one may feel that a relative or a member of one's immediate family is involved....

    "What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter."

    Mother: "So, Susie you have to go to Grandpa yourself and tell him not to do that anymore."

    Susie: "But I told him that, and he said if I told anyone or screamed when he did it, Jehovah would kill me."

    Mother: "Well, Susie, did anyone else see him doing what you said he did?"

    Susie: "No, Mommy, but he HURT me."

    Mother: "Notice what Jehovah's Organization has told us to do in that situation:

    "In such a situation, as long as the matter has not been firmly established, keeping contact with the family—at least by occasional visits, by letter, or by telephone—would show that one is trying to follow a Scriptural course.—Compare Ephesians 6:1-3.

    Mother: "So you have to spend time with him until someone else sees him do it again. This is what Jehovah's True Organization has said and we need to follow them."

    Susie: "I HATE this stupid religion."

    Mother: "Go to your room, Susie."

    Farkel

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    (((((((((((((((((((((( farkel )))))))))))))))))))

  • absolutelynoone
    absolutelynoone

    ****Quote from the letter to all congregations following recent news reports -- What enables us to maintain our happy spirit? For one thing, we fear Jehovah and we deeply respect the admonition in His Word, including what the Bible says on sexual matters. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Hebrews 13:4) At first, it was not easy for some of us to bring our lives into harmony with Jehovah's elevated standards. We had to make significant changes in our lifestyle before we could qualify for membership in Jehovah's clean, spirit-directed organization. Was it worth the effort? Absolutely! How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements!****

    First, I was a victim of abuse as a child, my sister was as well. Our uncle, a witness at the time, tormented us physically, sexually, and emotionally for at least a year, while he lived with us. On more than one occasion he threatened our lives at knife point. I remember him laying my sister on the dining table and threatening to cut her throat while he did unspeakable things to her and while I curled up on the floor and cried. To this day I've never told anyone who might be able to do anything about it. Neither has my sister. We are both x-dubs. Our lives have been a furious struggle to climb over that hill. As children, I was five my sister was eight, we were too terrified to tell even our parents, let alone a body of elders. To look into the eyes of a person who has mustered the courage to bring report of such abuse to the light and tell them that a second witness is required is so incredibly pharisaically legalistic, it makes me cringe. The testimony of an abused child should count as the testimony of ten men. For indeed, it takes the courage of ten men to bring such a story forward. The abject shame of confessing such a thing is something that no one other than another victim could understand.

    This paragraph of the organizations letter just infuriates me. I can just picture them all waiting like drones for the society's response to be handed down from the "platform". This second paragraph just oozes selfrighteous pus, doesn't it? "We had to make changes to our lifestyle before we could qualify for membership in Jehovah's clean, spirit-directed organization." Every time I read society copy I just want to puke. It's so unbelievable that anyone could swallow this crap. Especially in response to a report like the one on 48 hours. This line here is a personal favorite: "How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements!" I was a witness. For 17 miserable years. I don't remember a single moment where I or any of the others could have uttered such a line and not felt like an incredible hypocrite. RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS - give me a break. What are they talking about? You know I have to share a scripture in response to that dribble. You all know what the Witnesses consider to be righteous requirements. Well, here is what the living Word has to say about it: Micah 6:8 "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."(NIV) I ask, where is the justice for the silent lambs? And, how on this green earth could a statement like, "How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements!" ever be considered humble?

  • absolutelynoone
    absolutelynoone

    ****Quote from the letter to all congregations following recent news reports -- What enables us to maintain our happy spirit? For one thing, we fear Jehovah and we deeply respect the admonition in His Word, including what the Bible says on sexual matters. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Hebrews 13:4) At first, it was not easy for some of us to bring our lives into harmony with Jehovah's elevated standards. We had to make significant changes in our lifestyle before we could qualify for membership in Jehovah's clean, spirit-directed organization. Was it worth the effort? Absolutely! How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements!****

    First, I was a victim of abuse as a child, my sister was as well. Our uncle, a witness at the time, tormented us physically, sexually, and emotionally for at least a year, while he lived with us. On more than one occasion he threatened our lives at knife point. I remember him laying my sister on the dining table and threatening to cut her throat while he did unspeakable things to her and while I curled up on the floor and cried. To this day I've never told anyone who might be able to do anything about it. Neither has my sister. We are both x-dubs. Our lives have been a furious struggle to climb over that hill. As children, I was five my sister was eight, we were too terrified to tell even our parents, let alone a body of elders. To look into the eyes of a person who has mustered the courage to bring report of such abuse to the light and tell them that a second witness is required is so incredibly pharisaically legalistic, it makes me cringe. The testimony of an abused child should count as the testimony of ten men. For indeed, it takes the courage of ten men to bring such a story forward. The abject shame of confessing such a thing is something that no one other than another victim could understand.

    This paragraph of the organizations letter just infuriates me. I can just picture them all waiting like drones for the society's response to be handed down from the "platform". This second paragraph just oozes selfrighteous pus, doesn't it? "We had to make changes to our lifestyle before we could qualify for membership in Jehovah's clean, spirit-directed organization." Every time I read society copy I just want to puke. It's so unbelievable that anyone could swallow this crap. Especially in response to a report like the one on 48 hours. This line here is a personal favorite: "How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements!" I was a witness. For 17 miserable years. I don't remember a single moment where I or any of the others could have uttered such a line and not felt like an incredible hypocrite. RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS - give me a break. What are they talking about? You know I have to share a scripture in response to that dribble. You all know what the Witnesses consider to be righteous requirements. Well, here is what the living Word has to say about it: Micah 6:8 "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."(NIV) I ask, where is the justice for the silent lambs? And, how on this green earth could a statement like, "How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements!" ever be considered humble?

  • Eliveleth
    Eliveleth

    Dear absolutelynoone,
    My heart went out to you and your sister for the unspeakable pain and shame inflicted upon you by your uncle. I totally understand your not speaking of this to anyone. First of all because of the threats and second, because of the shame and third, because of the fear that no one would believe you, or blame you for what happened. I have been there, I understand. I am over 70 years old and carried this burden for years until I invited Jesus into my heart and he healed me. I cannot go to the Elders that were there when I was abused, I cannot accuse my father, they are all dead. Probably these were all the wrong reasons not to tell, but to me they were real. As an adult, I know all the right things to do and I would do it even if it meant my life, but children feel things a lot more intensely and fear authority in a deep and profound way. I am glad you are out. I hope that Jesus has healed you. For your welfare, you must forgive this man. God helped me to see that my father was abused too as a child. This helped me to forgive the things he did to me and my sister, to forgive him. God knows the heart and is merciful. I know it has been helpful to you to finally write these things down and admit openly that they happened. This is a good first step. Let God help you to complete this work. You can trust Him. He loves you.
    Eliveleth

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