Concerning Violence

by metatron 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    I'm glad to see open frank discussion on the subject of violence within - or caused

    by the organization.

    First, I don't understand why failure to appear before a judicial committee and being da'd

    is seen as a recent provocation. Failure to appear has always been a df'ing in absentia

    offense - while contemptable, I don't see this as new.

    Secondly, incidents of violence triggered by the organization are rare but not unknown.

    In some congregations (like Ireland) brothers settled disputes with fists outside the Kingdom Hall.

    It's really amazing how little violence has erupted, when you consider the damage the

    Watchtower has done to some people. Witnesses are chosen and trained to be passive

    and focus their negative impulses inwardly, often resulting in depression and sometimes,

    suicide.

    That may change, however, just as surely as oppressed minorities 'awaken' and overthrow

    their oppressors - after decades or even centuries of tyranny. Exposing and publicizing

    successful opposition to the Watchtower can change things - "Wow! You mean you can do

    that and not get struck by lightening?" - you understand!

    Lee's point about widespread mental illness in the organization is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

    The Society SHOULD be worried about all the loose nuts they have and the potential

    for violence they may cause. I recall an incident from many years ago where a df'd

    kook wanted to blow up a Kingdom Hall in upstate NY - YES, it does happen!

    If I were them, I would worry about disruptions caused by mentally unbalanced Witnesses

    who are driven over the edge by being disfellowshipped - such treatment is cruel - and

    very dangerous. Don't think that violence against the organization would automatically be

    beneficially seen as 'persecution'. Elders who get attacked for cruelty in such a case

    might send a message far and wide to stop such provocations of hurting, sick individuals.

    Thirdly, as to provocations, I am surprized you all have missed the MOTHER OF ALL

    possible provocations coming! The Society desperately NEEDS TO WEASEL AWAY

    FROM THE BLOOD TRANSFUSION ISSUE! This one is the motherlode, guys! Imagine

    the sheer COWARDICE that guides them down this road - the issue is quietly released

    thru ambigious Questions From Readers, semi-private phone calls, and hints from

    discarded new blood cards - while the 'bleed to death" standard prevails. I still see no

    appearance of this fraudulent doctrine in their new book for baptism ,"Serve the Only

    True God".

    Finally, as to history, I recall the greatest open example of What The Society Would Like

    to Do - violently. In Rutherford's day, brothers were supplied with steel tipped canes at

    Madison Square Garden and used them to beat Catholic disrupters. I think if you'll check

    the Olin Moyle letter, I think you'll see a reference to this incident - Rutherford called some brothers

    "pussies' or something for objecting to the melee. The police confiscated the canes.

    In summary, the Society needs to do a lot of thinking about disfellowshipping as a provocation

    to unnecessary violence from unbalanced Witnesses - now , before things get any worse.

    I write this missive to PREVENT VIOLENCE - not to encourage it.

    metatron

  • dmouse
    dmouse

    The Society desperately NEEDS TO WEASEL AWAY

    FROM THE BLOOD TRANSFUSION ISSUE! This one is the motherlode, guys!

    I've seen this sentiment expressed elsewhere but I can't yet see why it is more significant than, say, the UN or paedophile issue.

    The Society's blood policy has always been based on misinterpretation of scripture and a flaky understanding of medicine. What has changed?

    The policy is soundly entrenched within the JW psyche, it is accepted without question as an identifying mark of Jehovahs Witnesses; it has been this way for over half a century. Why would they seek to change it now? When, in all likelihood, medical technology will soon provide an acceptable alternative. The way I see it the blood question will become a non-issue eventually due to scientific progress, maybe within the next ten years.

    The WBTS risk litigation far more by changing the policy than by keeping it, due to the fallout from relatives of people dying for transient beliefs. I think it was dungbeetle who mentioned that a change in the policy would make him MORE angry than not changing it. I think many will see it that way; a big change in the blood policy would damage the Society's credibility as much within the ranks as out of it, causing more rude awakenings and the potential for violence.

    Dont get me wrong. Personally I hope the policy is abandoned tomorrow for the sake of all those who would otherwise die needlessly, but I just cant see how doing so would benefit the Society which is after all the only thing they care about, not the welfare of the brothers and sisters.

    Edited by - dmouse on 10 June 2002 9:19:50

    Edited by - dmouse on 10 June 2002 9:21:4

  • one
    one
    Re: Concerning Violence Jun 10, 2002 09:17

    The WBTS risk litigation far more by changing the policy than by keeping it

    *** "The WBTS risk litigation far more by changing the policy than by keeping it"

    to me the risk is the same either way...

  • metatron
    metatron

    The whole subject of blood transfusion is morally corrosive to the Watchtower establishment.

    Many of them know the issue is a fraud - more are learning about this with every passing day

    (witness the Jensen letters). It NOW threatens to explode in their faces by being openly exposed

    in a manner similar to the pedophile issue - except the consequences are far worse!

    They HAVE TO FEAR a sudden exposure by defectors that the whole issue is a fraud -AND

    they already put themselves in an increasingly untenable position as to making any sense

    of the doctrine. Look CAREFULLY at information posted about this issue currently - things

    are happening!

    CHild molesters existed in the organization for many decades without public exposure

    UNTIL NOW - times are changing AND THEY SENSE IT. Take a good look at the new

    literature from the assembly and I think you will see an outline of what they are trying to do-

    get rid of most offensive doctrines and re-assert authority (OBEY THE ELDERS).

    Exposure changes everything for them.

    metatron

  • curlers
    curlers

    The most wonderful person in the world was my paternal grandmother who was a Lutheran and has been gone for too long, 16 yrs. She was at Madison Square Garden. She hated JWs. The JWs had my grandfather leave my grandmother like WWII with four kids. Because she wasn't a JW, my parents told me she'd be destroyed at Armagadden. I was 5 and thought JWs are crap if they think the most wonderful woman in the world would die. Then when she dies 16 yrs ago and I was DF'd, my parents tell me that now she could be reserected because she died before Armagadden and supposedly she was studying with the JW right before she died. BS!

    Anyway, my Grandma called being DF'd being dismember as in a serial murder that dismembers the victim's body. That's a good description.

    First its known that JW look for vulnerable people to seduce into the religion. A lot of vulnerable people sometimes have trouble with mental illness like depression, anxiety, obssessive complusive disorder, etc... Or being the victim of abuse can lead to problems with mental illness. Then the icing on the cake is to be DF'd because you're a victim of circumstances and to be shunned is fertile grounds for problems with mental illness.

    I'm surprised there hasn't been more acting out against the WTS through violence or suing through the courts. In my case, I'm not violent but I didn't pursue police or court action because I thought I was the only JW being abused by my bio-dad and who would believe me.

    Think out loud, school violence, shootings in schools, they say these are the kids that are bullied taking a stand. This has gotten out of hand. I wonder if its possible that something like this could happen to JWs and the WTS.

    The abuse perputrated by the WTS and JWs isn't limited to child abuse. There are the cliches. There are the wives that must be submissive. There are kids that are beaten to within an inch of their lives like my older brother and myself. There is verbal abuse. It goes on and on. What if like the movie "Network;" "I'm mad a hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."

    The WTS and those individual self-righteous JWs that get off on saying they're better got a lot of explaining to do. I can't wait till they're really accountable.

    curlers

  • nancee park
    nancee park

    As to elders being violent, some in Canada, not just Ireland, have also hit with their fists. Some themselves and with help from others will go up to someone and tap them on the back then jump on away.

    I've know them to stick their hand in a person's back while the person was standing trying to pray at the kingdom hall. Another harassment method is to thump you hard about the collar bone. And the one that takes the cake is where an elder gets you off by yourself or with just another elder around then he pushes you down right after saying "I'm getting the strangest feeling."

    I once read a website where a man said he believed his two boys had been murdered to keep it shut up because of a JW (elder?) was a pedophile. I think Kent Steinhaug had it a long time on observer.org and am going to try to re-find it. Anyone know where it is?

  • dmouse
    dmouse

    And, thinking about it further, one of the main things that has changed the matter is the Internet.

    They can no longer hide their fraud like they used to by strict control of information.

    For the first time in the WBTS's history they can't hide from the light of truth - people are seeking out and finding information about stuff they would rather the brothers didn't know.

    With my 'ear to the ground' it seems to me that there is a ground swell of discontent in the religion. I am hearing many tales of brothers leading double lives and not being happy with the way things are being run. On the surface things seem hunky-dory but underneath people are angry and disillusioned.

    It wouldn't surprise me if there was a sudden major split in the Organisation.

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