Excellent POV film on PBS last night

by jukief 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  jukief

  I watched a very interesting and touching program on PBS last night (Tuesday). It portrayed a Mormon family, the Smiths, as they dealt with some very devastating circumstances. The husband was a closeted gay for many years who ended up getting AIDS and bringing it home to his wife. The wife decided to forgive him and stay with him as he died. It was a heartwrenching documentary; I cried through the whole thing.

  What especially interested me about the film was the aspect of how the Mormon church dealt with Steve Smith's homosexuality. He was "disciplined" several times because he could not honestly say he wasn't gay. He had to go through the JW-like judicial hearings and admit his sins, show repentence and ask for forgiveness. At the end he had to lie to his bishop and tell him that he no longer considered himself gay, just so he wouldn't get excommunicated and would be able to participate in the church. It was painful to see what the loss of this man's faith and the way his church abadoned him made his guilt and pain much worse. The youngest son expressed his anger at the church for the way it treated his father.

  In the end, it was a remarkable essay on the love and forgiveness this family was able to show. I admire the family for the way they handled the difficult situation (they even marched in a Gay Pride parade--in SLC, no less). I wonder how many JW families could show as much love and tolerance. The greatest tragedy is how these churches--the JWs and Mormons among them--force people to live false lives. I had a discussion with several people about this on the POV discussion board. They couldn't understand how any of this could be the Mormon Church's fault, but if the church wasn't so intolerant, this man wouldn't have tried so hard to deny what he was and the story could have turned out quite different. (Of course, these people don't know what it's like to be raised in a religion that brainwashes you the way the dubs and Mormons do. They made some rather stupid statements about how if he didn't agree with the church's teachings he shouldn't have been a Mormon in the first place--like he had a choice.) It's too bad that religion, which is supposed to be all about love, can be so unloving to those who don't fit the mold.

  PBS will surely air the program again. If you didn't get to see it this time, I highly recommend you try to catch it when it airs again.

  Julie
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  scootergirl

  Thanks, Julie. I just love PBS.......I will watch the listing for when it comes back on.

  Do you remember what it was called?
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  ZazuWitts

  Julie,

  Thanks for the recommendation. I've just checked and see that it will air in my area Friday evening. I'll be sure to watch.

  Intolerance, intolerance - the plague of mankind.
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  beckyboop

  Julie,

  Thanks for the great tip! I love watching things like that because they show how intolerant of real people that most religions are. That's so heartwrenching that he had to die with feelings of guilt about who he was. I'm glad his wife stayed with him to help him through that period, and that his children even backed him. I hope I can find somebody to tape it for me!

  Becky
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  waiting

  Hey Julie,

  I can see partially what some of the others meant by not understanding how the actions of the Mormon church had anything to do with the man's circumstances. They didn't cause him to be gay, get aids, and die. It was his actions. Very basic truths, very black/white. Btw, I'm not saying I agree - as a good percentage of my family tree is gay.

  They did cause his duplicity in his life, a most likely feeling of worthlessness, guilt, wounded spirit - and a split in his marriage. They did cause some of the same feelings in his wife and children - any jw family with the same circumstance would suffer along with the offender also. I believe the system is biased to purposely produce this damage in whole families. However, the foregoing problems aren't black/white, so therefore, not really thought about by the followers. If thought about, certainly not spoken outloud, or not for very long.

  One of the best aspects that the Mormon family did to heal was to march in the Gay Parade. I would assume they've not been df'd for doing that? Any jw family would have been - guaranteed.

  Thanks for the info - like Zazu, will check my program schedule.

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 26 June 2002 8:26:58
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  Amazing

  Hi Julie: While my mom did well in helping me grow up without racial prejudice, I still grew up with prejudice against Gays ... that's the way the 1950s were ... and somewhat the 1960s ...

  Then as a JW in San Francisco, I worked with Gays, and had a Gay Secretary assigned to me. HIs name was Jack, and he was very vocal and open about his Gay life, and his lover, Victor. I was vocal against Gays, both as a JW and as I was raised ... Over the years that Jack worked for me, I came to appreciate him as an individual and eventually my angst against Gays lessened (as much as it could within the JW context). During this time period I also called on an old school friend who was more of a bi-sexual. He knew me before my JW days, and was intrigued by my becoming a JW. His name was George. He and I rekindled our friendship, and somehow my JW thinking was set aside to allow this Gay friend.

  From both of these men and other Gay individuals I have known, I managed to gradually become tolerant, and then non-judgmental, and then somewhat accepting, though I am limited by the fact that I am an avid heterosexual.

  What disturbed me a lot during this transition for me was how the JWs, especially Elders, (and sadly me too) told Gay jokes based on Aids, and many other negative social aspects about them ... and I can only imagine what it would have been like for any JW man who said he was Gay to face a Judicial Committee made up of Elders who held these views ... both the religious stand as well as their own individual prejudices would have meant utter injustice for Gay JWs. Translates this similar treatment to Mormons, or other groups and it is really a nightmare for Gay people. During my years as a JW we never had any claim they were Gay, but I can imagine there were several, but the fear to admit their sexual preference was overwhelmingly too great.

  Thanks for bringing out and commenting a good program. I rarely watch PBS. When I lived in Oregon, PBS carried Dr, Bradshaw, and I enjoyed that series very much.
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  SusanHere

  Although I'm sure to get stomped on for speaking up on this, I did want to just clarify for those of JW experience that the Mormon version of Church discipline is not the same as the JW version. Mormons do not do the shunning bit, at all. They don't shun the individual, nor do they shun the family. The Mormon disfellowshipment is temporary removal of membership, but not of fellowship. There is a huge difference. It is also not announced, so nobody knows except those the individual himself chooses to tell.

  Because we expect more of our members than of the general public, and believe that God does, too, by temporarily removing membership, the person can be given time to work through whatever problem he is experiencing and come to his own decisions as to what to do. During this time, the family is expected to rally around them, support them physically and emotionally, strengthen them, love them, and help them however they can. Those members who are aware of the situation are expected to do the same.

  We regard the failure of any member to be the failure of the entire Ward family, so do all we can to help each other through the rough times.

  Susan
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  morrisamb

  Julie, when I got home last night, imagine my surprise to find my Witness mother watching the show. She says, "You should look at this."

  It was an inspiring documentary. Would that all families would be so loving and understanding during such painful experiences. My mother did need to keep saying, "He admitted he sinned." Nevertheless, she was touched by the program and the compassion shown.
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  jukief

  Hi Susan.

  You're right; most of us ex-JWs don't understand how the Mormon church works. I was just commenting on how he talked about his grief over his loss--he wasn't able to participate in the church (he said just sitting in the pew wasn't enough for him). What I thought was awful was that he felt forced to lie to his bishop about being "cured" of his sexual orientation--something almost everyone agrees is impossible. That lie just caused him more guilt and pain. He lost his faith in the church at the end (but not his faith in god). On the other hand, the Mormons were much more tolerant than JWs would *ever* be. His family was accepted and supported, and because of the last-minute decision not to excommunicate him, he was able to speak at the going-away services for his son (who left on a mission three weeks before his father died).

  As for shunning, I don't agree. I had a good friend who was Mormon and lived in a small town in Utah. She "fell away" (I'm using JW speak here). That is, she just stopped going to temple. The result? She was shunned by the whole town. None of the Mormon children in the town would play with her sons. The shunning was so bad that she moved away, to Colorado, where I met her in the mid-80s. Her experience with the LDS church mirrored my own with the JWs. I, too, "fell away." (I was never DFed or DAed.) Several of my immediate family members shun me. So many rumors (all untrue) have circulated about me (the latest is that I'm physically violent when the JWs come to my door LOL) that many of the JWs in my hometown are wary and scared of me. So I think, in this respect, the Mormons are very much like the JWs. Maybe they don't atively shun people who are disfellowshipped, but they certainly do shun people when it suits them.

  I can certainly understand that the church would feel he needed discipline for his infidelity, but to punish him because of his sexual orientation (something over which he had no control) is very unloving, in my opinion. No one should be forced to lie about who he/she is. I know of several gay JWs who have lived a lie their entire lives. Both are absolutely miserable. I can understand that the JWs would force them to remain celebate, but they should be able to openly acknowledge thier homosexuality without fear of condemnation.

  Amazing, I'm glad you were able to overcome your feelings toward homosexuals. I've had a number of gay friends, and after seeing the pain they've gone through, I strongly believe that being gay is NOT a choice and that no one would ever willingly choose such a difficult path (especially a JW!). I'm not pro-gay, I just think gay people are like anyone else and should be treated accordingly. I, too, am an avowed heterosexual, much to Alan's relief. :-)))

  Waiting, I mostly agree with you. His own actions certainly resulted in his contracting AIDS and dying, but I don't think he's responsible for being gay. That was NOT his choice. He tried very hard NOT to be gay. And the church is guilty of not allowing him to be openly gay in the first place and forcing him to try to live a life as a heterosexual. (Mormons get married young like JWs do and are encouraged to have as many children as possible; imagine the pressure that would put on a gay man.) That's tragic for the wife. I can't imagine being in that position. His wife is truly an amazing person. Not only did she forgive her husband for his infidelity and for giving her a terminal disease, but she continued to love him and took care of him until he died. Not many people could be that forgiving or show that much love.

  Julie
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  JWinSF

  Yes, the similarities between the JWs and the Mormons are far greater than fewer. I first came to realize this in 1994. I went to see the dual plays by Tony Kushner, "Angels in America" and "Perestroika" [hope I have the spelling correct on the later]. It was a play about a closeted gay man in the Mormon church. He was also married. I went with another gay couple, and a gay ex-JW friend of mine. During the intermission my friend turned to me and asked who the characters reminded me of. I immediately said that the author could have changed the references of Mormon to Jehovah's Witness, the Tabernacle to Kingdom Hall, and Salt Lake City to Brooklyn and change not one other word and the story would have worked as is. That's how close the experience of a gay man in the JWs [for me and my friend] was to that of the young Morman man's experience.

  I believe that the JWs take everything a step further in terms of control, but it's only a matter of degree. Life for a gay man as a Mormon would surely [IMO] be the same living hell as for one who's a JW.

  Out of the JWs, out of the closet, and happy for it.