Heaven? Hell?

conflicted

I was asked the other day whether I believed in Heaven and/or Hell, and I almost started spouting JW doctrine before I stopped myself and really pondered the question.

It's a different world when you have to start thinking for yourself instead of letting the organization think for you. When I left the JW's, I pretty much left religion in general, I dont consider myself agnostic, but I question everything religious I was ever taught. From "does God exist" to "evolution", "faith", "death", everything I "knew" is under suspicion now.

So back to the topic, the witnesses teach: there is heaven, but only 144,000 get to go, there is no hell, only non-existance upon our death. If they are wrong about the majority of their teachings, they are probably wrong about this. Unfortunately this is one teaching by the WTS that we can't prove or disprove - we'll find out for sure one day, but we can't know until that time comes.

I don't know what I believe yet, as I'm still searching. The following quote is a daoist teaching I found recently, I think it fits.

"No beliefs are true, they're beliefs. A belief system is something you have faith in regardless of the evidence. That's why all belief systems are equally valid - they're equally invalid. Therefore they're all deserving of equal respect. Little or none. Which is why simple human courtesy outweighs the value of any belief system. Even if a belief system is accurate to the way the universe works, it's still a belief system. That's it's trap."

So, what do you think?

mommy

Wow, I really like that thought.
I personally don't believe in hell. I can't imagine a God of love even thinking of this way to torture. Just as I could not imagine some of the sick ways that people murder others. As for my belief in heaven, I believe in a "type" of heaven. Very different than what is depicted by many. And since this is part of my belief system it is valid
Good question!
wendy

unanswered

conflicted-i can identify, i too have come to a point where i'm questioning/researching everything, not just a few points. you can't tip one domino over without knocking over the rest of them. i really liked the quote, it made me think of something i realized a long time ago, the fact that most of the main "rules" of living should come naturally-don't cheat on your mate, treat others as you would have them treat you, etc. sure none of us are perfect, but i really don't think jehovah wants to have to tell us these things. they are things we do to get along in life and it doesn't have to be a "rule" for us to know it is right. i'm just sad my conditioning by the WT made me believe otherwise. didn't mean to ramble, good post-unanswered.

RedhorseWoman

I don't know if I "believe" in Heaven or Hell. However, I do know that the more I experience, the more open I am to the idea....of Heaven at least. I can't accept the thought that a loving God would condemn people to endless suffering.

Moridin

I don't believe in heaven or hell however I do believe that their is another dimension that all spirits go to when they die and that it's a wonderful place.

Sassenach

"No beliefs are true, they're beliefs. A belief system is something you have faith in regardless of the evidence. That's why all belief systems are equally valid - they're equally invalid."

This is interesting because I heard a former jehovahs-witnesses on another discussion forum basically say that even though he didn't believe in the doctrines of the witnesses, at least they teach the truth about hell. Which to him, made them better than other religions.

That struck me as funny. For me, what he is saying is that he likes their misunderstanding (remember he doesn't believe what they teach) of armageddon and paradise earth better than the misunderstanding of hell. All because their misunderstanding makes the god he doesn't believe in seem nicer. People confuse me.

TR

Why not believe in a torturous type of hell? God(?)lets the worse possible things happen here on earth right now. Possibly the only other thing that could happen would be a nuclear holocaust.

God kicked the holy shinola out of millions of people in the bible. Many believe he'll do the same during armageddon.

The only thing that stuck with me from jdubdum was the heavenly thing. It made sense to me that humans would continue to live on earth rather than all go to heaven. But then again, it's just a belief system.

If there is a God, why is he playing this sick and demented game with billions of people's lives. Here comes the age old question of "why is there wickedness" and "why does God let it happen". So he can prove sovereignty? So he can prove his ways are better than man's?
If this is so, he's a sick bastard in my opinion. Billions suffer so God can look good. Bullshit.

My current belief system is that shit happens, period.

TR

conflicted

Here's a thought - everything we see around us is defineable by its opposite.

Things are big compared to things that are small, things are empty when compared to something full etc.

So, if heaven does exist and it is the most glorious place to be, it must have an opposite - not necessarily hell, but someplace vile and detestible.

Perhaps Earth?

waiting

Hey conflicted,

So, if heaven does exist and it is the most glorious place to be, it must have an opposite - not necessarily hell, but someplace vile and detestible.
Perhaps Earth?

Perhaps not *must*, but nevertheless, an interesting thought. I'm short as defined by the guy who works with me who is 15" taller than me. I am tall as defined by my 89 aunt, who is 7" shorter than me.

Might it come down to what you compare to? Such as a good heaven vs earth, or a glorious heaven vs a burning hell.

Jehovah has Bealzebub, Batman has the Joker First Batman movie

I've become a bit of an agnostic.

I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for his reputation if He didn't. Author Unknown at the minute

Nice meeting you. Welcome.

waiting

Heaven? Hell?

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