WT: Practice What They Preach?

by abbagail 9 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • abbagail
    abbagail

    This Watchtower excerpt was on the SIlent Lambs Guestbook page. The wording is so CRYSTAL CLEAR, you wonder how they got SO OFF TRACK with the sex abuse? FWIW, I found this very very interesting indeed... GRITS

    w62 11/15, 693:

    The Benefits of Subjection to Authorities

    9 Worldly authorities render a judgment and punish persons, whether they are inside the congregation or outside, if they violate the laws of decency and good order. The violators have no right to complain at such punishment, as Paul showed by his words before Caesar's judgment seat. (Acts 25:11) Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth. The congregation must release such guilty members to punishment by worldly authorities. Since the guilty break the laws of the land and thus oppose the "authority," they are taking a stand against God's arrangement.

    10 The Christian congregation has no orders from God and has no right to protect such opposers and lawbreakers from the due punishment by the "authority" of the land. We cannot hinder, oppose or condemn the execution of the krima or judgment by aiding or shielding lawbreakers. To do so would put the Christian congregation also in opposition to God's arrangement. Besides letting the krima or "judgment" take its course upon offending members who bring reproach upon God's people, the congregation may disfellowship such lawbreakers. The congregation does not want to deserve a krima or "judgment" with the lawbreakers by siding or cooperating with them and opposing the worldly "authority." It also wants no reproach.

    --------
    After posting the above, I saw the legal loophole, i.e., "congregation must release such GUILTY members..." -- So, if the abusers deny it to the elders, then he is NOT GUILTY in their eyes, therefore, they feel no obligation to "release him to the worldly authorities," eh?

    And what's with that word "krima"? It's not in my computer's dictionary, but karma is! ;)

    Another interesting question from Silent Lambs guestbook, someone wrote something to the effect of: "Regarding the Don't Tell Policy, what if two pedophiles are out in service together, yet neither of them knows the other is a perv? How are they going to "monitor" each other?"

    Edited by - grits on 22 July 2002 7:58:6

    Edited by - grits on 22 July 2002 8:2:58

    Edited by - grits on 22 July 2002 11:55:49

  • Wolfgirl
    Wolfgirl

    Sure isn't what happened in my case.

  • ItsJustlittleoldme
    ItsJustlittleoldme

    OOOps,

    I guess they had 'new light' since then, and Jehovah told the GB NOT to allow Caesar to prosecute the guilty..

    It sure is doing them alot of good, as they are certainly bringing reproach on Jehovah's name by protecting them!!!!

    Wolf: I'm sorry to hear that, and welcome to the board!!!!!

  • Wolfgirl
    Wolfgirl

    Thanks.

  • Robert_V_Frazier
    Robert_V_Frazier

    And what's with that word "krima"? It's not in my computer's dictionary, but karma is! ;)

    That's because it's not an English word; it's Greek.

    The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

    Strong's Number: 2917 Browse Lexicon
    Original WordWord Origin
    krimafrom (2919)
    Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
    Krima3:942,469Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechkree'-mah Noun Neuter Definition
    1. a decree, judgments
    2. judgment
      1. condemnation of wrong, the decision (whether severe or mild) which one passes on the faults of others
      2. in a forensic sense
        1. the sentence of a judge
        2. the punishment with which one is sentenced
        3. condemnatory sentence, penal judgment, sentence
      3. a matter to be judicially decided, a lawsuit, a case in court
      4. NAS Word Usage - Total: 28condemnation 8, judgment 15, judgments 1, lawsuits 1, sentence 1, sentence of condemnation 1, way 1
        NAS Verse Count
        Matthew2
        Mark1
        Luke3
        John1
        Acts1
        Romans6
        1 Corinthians3
        Galatians1
        1 Timothy2
        Hebrews1
        James1
        1 Peter1
        2 Peter1
        Jude1
        Revelation3


        Total28

        Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." These files are public domain.

        Source: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2917&version=nas

        Robert Frazier

    3. Robert_V_Frazier
      Robert_V_Frazier

      "a matter to be judicially decided, a lawsuit, a case in court" is supposed to be definition 3. HTML screwed up.

      Robert Frazier

    4. abbagail
      abbagail

      Thanks Robert V for the thorough definition/explanation re: krima! Learn something new every day!

      Regards/Grits

    5. searcher
      searcher

      Hi Grits

      Not so hard to see how they got off the mark when you consider what Jesus said at Matthew 23:27,28

      say's it all I think.

      searcher

    6. blondie
      blondie

      JWs reporting criminals (my research, pardon any duplication; my comments are highlighted)

      *** w77 3/15 191-2 Questions from Readers ***


      A man I know is progressing toward Christian baptism, but his visa to be in this country has expired. What should I advise him?

      You certainly should commend him for desiring to know and follow Gods counsel. The Scriptures urge Christians to be law-abiding, to pay to Caesar what is Caesars. (Matt. 22:21) Hence , it would be good for you to urge this man to do what he can to rectify his status, (Doesnt this indicate that we should urge rapists, child and wife abusers, etc., to rectify their status or is that only if the authorities already know?)which may at present be considered that of an illegal alien.

      Evidently he is not stealing, lying, living in immorality or otherwise violating Gods moral laws plainly stated in the Bible. (What are Gods moral laws: disfellowshipping offenses:stealing, lying, living in immorality, child or wife abuse, rape, murder.)We mention this because a person who is breaking Gods laws must repent and turn around before he will qualify for Christian baptism. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Acts 26:20; 2:38) But, this man wants to know, What about complying with the laws of the land (Obviously then, the laws of the land are not the same as Gods laws, ergo, we can break some of Caesars laws as long as we are not breaking Gods laws?), such as in his case?

      The Bible advises Christians to obey the laws of the land in all matters where there is no conflict with Gods law. (Rom. 13:1; Acts 5:29) The apostle explained that by doing this we will not need to fear punishment from the authorities who punish lawbreakers. Also, we can thus have a clear conscience.Rom. 13:3-5.

      Still, Gods Word does not charge the Christian congregation, through its overseers, with the obligation to become acquainted with all the details of civil and criminal law so as to enforce these. (This is not necessary just to report a crime to the authorities)

      We can see this in how Paul handled the case of Onesimus.

      Onesimus was a slave of a Colossian Christian named Philemon. For some selfish reason Onesimus fled to Rome so he could lose himself in the masses of people there; he may even have robbed his master before fleeing. In Rome as a runaway slave (Latin, fugitivus) Onesimus came in contact with Paul, became a Christian and ministered to Paul. In time the apostle urged Onesimus to return to his legal master, Paul even encouraging Philemon to receive Onesimus as a brother and to treat him kindly.Philem. 8-22.

      Take note that while Onesimus was in Rome the apostle Paul did not hand him over to the Roman authorities for punishment as a fugitive slave and possibly a thief. (Was this because being a fugitive slave was not breaking one of Gods moral laws?)

      We know from his writings that Paul believed that a Christian should obey the law of the land (not necessarily one of Gods laws), but plainly he did not consider it the congregations duty to serve as an arm of the government in policing (this word suggests butting into peoples lives unasked not the coming to know circumstances through incidental personal observance or reports from others of observed wrong behavior) individuals lives. Also, we can observe that Onesimus situation was not treated as a barrier to his getting baptized (What other laws of the land could be broken and not affect our standing in the congregation or being qualified to be baptized?). Eventually Onesimus, likely motivated by counsel such as had been written earlier in Romans 13:1-5 and by Pauls personal urgings, chose to return to his legal master. (Does this mean we should encourage the wrongdoer to turn themselves in; what if they dont?)

      The Christian congregation today follows a course harmonious with this Biblical pattern. It does not, before allowing a person to get baptized or continue in the congregation, check to see if someones home meets every detail of the building code, whether he has satisfied every detail as to his legal status in the country, and so forth (Would "and so forth" include rape, child abuse, murder, etc.?)

      This by no means suggests that Gods people care little about Caesars laws. On the contrary, we are well known as a people who strive to be law-abiding; many governmental officials have praised Jehovahs Witnesses for this. It is even as Paul wrote about obeying the government, "Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it."Rom. 13:3.

      In particular should men who take the lead in the congregation be exemplary in this respect. The Bible says about elders and ministerial servants that they should be "irreprehensible," having a fine testimony from people on the outside and being "free from accusation." (1 Tim. 3:2, 7, 10) Thus a Christian who chooses to ignore well-known legal requirements of "Caesar" (What type of offenses could this be? Tax evasion, drunk driving, excessive speeding) would hardly be in position to be recommended for such offices in the congregation.Men recommended for such privileges should be ones "holding firmly to the faithful word," not only in what they say, but also in how they choose to live, including their applying the counsel to pay "Caesars things to Caesar."Titus 1:7-9.

      True, each individual, Christian or not, is personally responsible as to whether he complies with civil laws.

      (Civil laws are not the same as criminal laws which deal with moral issues like rape, child abuse, murder, etc)

      *** w94 11/15 27-8 "If You Owe Taxes, Pay Taxes" ***


      When it comes to paying taxes, each Christian must shoulder the responsibility of being honest and law-abiding. This is not a matter in which the congregation elders supervise the flock under their care. (Thus the elders do not audit individuals tax returns but only become involved if the individual brags about evading taxes and it becomes common knowledge or is investigated and found guilty by the government)(Compare 2 Corinthians 1:24.) They do not involve themselves in tax matters unless some case of serious wrongdoing, perhaps involving scandal in the community, comes to their attention. In general, this is an area wherein the individual Christian is responsible for using his properly trained conscience in applying Scriptural principles. (Hebrews 5:14)

      *** w64 11/1 669 Be Honest in Everything ***


      Related to this is the practice of smuggling, buying things in a neighboring country and then sneaking them across the border to avoid paying import tax or duty. While this may be a common practice in some lands, it should not be practiced by Christians, because it denies the government what it lawfully requires. The civil authority is entitled to set up duties if it wants. Since their doing so does not conflict with Gods laws, it must be complied with. The Christian who smuggles is acting dishonestly and can be held accountable, not only by the police, but also by the Christian congregation. (How is being an illegal alien not acting dishonestly (see account above)?)

      *** w86 10/1 31 Questions From Readers ***


      Elders in the Christian congregation are responsible to handle violations of divine law, such as stealing, murder, and immorality. But God did not require congregation elders to enforce Caesars laws and codes. Hence, Paul did not feel compelled to turn over to Roman authorities Onesimus, who was a fugitive under Roman law. (Philemon 10, 15) Of course, if someone flagrantly violates secular law(but not Gods laws), gaining the reputation of being a lawbreaker, he would not be a good example and might even be disfellowshipped.(1 Timothy 3:2, 7, 10) If lawbreaking was involved in causing anothers death, bloodguilt requiring congregation investigation might result.

      *** w90 11/1 19 The Role of the Superior Authorities ***


      Jehovahs Witnesses have a good reputation for not opposing human authorities. If it happens that an individual in the congregation does break the law, the congregation will not help him evade lawful punishment. (Not reporting such crimes would be helping them evade lawful punishment). If anyone steals, murders, libels, cheats on his taxes, rapes, defrauds, uses illegal drugs, or in any other way opposes lawful authority, he will face severe discipline from the congregation (but will the congregation report his crime to the secular authorities?)and he should not feel persecuted when he is punished by the secular authority.1 Corinthians 5:12, 13; 1 Peter 2:13-17, 20.

      Do the elders have some religious confidentiality clause not to answer the questions of law enforcement to establish guilt in the case of someone who has both broken Gods and secular laws?

    7. abbagail
      abbagail

      Thanks searcher, I see what you mean... I forgot about that scripture - hypocrites in their whitewashed graves. And with the news of Bill Bowen's DF'ing, all the more hypocritical in all aspects, i.e., df'ing the one who takes action about abuses; yet they keep the ones in the congs doing the abusing. Something's totally backwards!

      And blondie, hey girl! Thanks for the hard work posting all that info from all those WT's!! It consistently appears they wish to keep their traps shut and keep themselves out of any tanglings with the law by saying over and over, "That Ain't MY JOB, Man!" Not paying taxes is a long shot from VIOLENT CRIME, like sex abuse, rape, torture, domestic abuse, etc.

      I think they showed their true double-standard in the last paragraph: "If anyone steals, murders, libels, cheats on his taxes, rapes, defrauds, uses illegal drugs, or in any other way opposes lawful authority, he will face severe discipline from the congregation..." OH REALLY? Doesn't appear so in the case of the sexual abuses they've been sitting on for decades.

      Arrrgggh!

      Grits

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