DA=DF....Why?

by thinker 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  thinker

  The latest Kingdom Ministry states that disassociated persons are to be treated the same as disfellowshipped ones. Why is this?

  I have heard two explanations:

  1) Those who DA are ASSUMED to be sinners who were apt to be disfellowshipped if they had stayed in the organization.

  Without a shread of evidence, without a single witness (much less the bible-based "two witnesses"), those who leave the organization are judged and condemned as sinners. On what basis are these assumtions made? What scriptures call for such actions?

  1Pet3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

  2) Those who DA are said to be "turning their backs on Jehovah". This would assume that Jehovah and the Watchtower oganization are one and the same. Is leaving the organization (because of a difference of belief) the same as leaving Jehovah?
• 

  Scully

  The term 'disassociation' has had various applications over the years, as far as I recall.

  When I was in my late teens, I remember unbaptized people who were either children of JWs or had been associated for a while being referred to as "disassociated" when it became known that they were engaging in conduct that would get a baptized JW disfellowshipped. We weren't allowed to talk to or associate with these people, even though they were never officially members of the congregation to begin with.

  There was also a time when disassociation didn't carry the penalty of shunning the way it does now. Apparently before my time in the organization.

  Since the early 80s, disassociation has referred to the voluntary act of a baptized JW to resign their membership from the WTS. It has been used as an 'escape hatch' for people who were about to be DFd for some kind of wrongdoing.

  Elders usually request a letter of disassociation from someone who no longer wishes to be known as a JW. Oddly enough, they are not permitted - WTS legal protection - to provide a letter to individuals to confirm their 'disfellowshipped' status when a committee has made a decision to DF someone.

  The body of elders can also make an announcement to the effect that 'So-and-so has disassociated themselves' if it becomes known that the individual is engaging in activity contrary to the rulings of the WTS. For example, if a JW joined the military or took a job in a tobacco factory, this would be considered as an act of disassociation. This has now been extended, as we have seen very clearly with the Shunned Father situation, to include JWs who accept blood transfusions or allow them for their minor children. It also could be applied to someone who puts a wreath on their door at Christmas time.

  The difference now, with these scenarios, is that the individual who is being singled out as "disassociated" does not receive the 'benefit' of a judicial hearing. I'm becoming more and more convinced that an announcement has been made that I am 'disassociated' because of the way JWs react to me in public, however, I have never submitted a letter to that effect, nor have I ever been invited to a meeting with a judicial committee. Which is fine with me, really. I kind of like the idea that JWs are 'afraid, very afraid' of me.

  Love, Scully
  Big Bad Apostate Class

  Edited by - Scully on 13 August 2002 17:32:55
• 

  rob

  Thinker - you know my situation pretty well I think. I was disassociated without a committee meeting or a letter written. I was baffled. I think that our power-hungry PO decided to take it upon himself to be rid of me. Not that I regret leaving this cult. I just regret the resulting isolation from my family.
• 

  Swan

  The question I have was not covered in that August 2002 Kingdom Ministry insert. I would like to know how all of the information covered in the this insert applies to the WTBTS and the UN now that the WTBTS has DAed itself from the UN? Can the UN talk to the WTBTS anymore? Or is the WTBTS not allowed to talk to the UN? I'm so confused on this issue and I really wish they would clarify this to everyone, especially with Halloween coming up in a few months. I don't know whether I should give my UNICEF donation to the trick-or-treaters or the JWs?!?

  Tammy
• 

  thinker

  If someone DA's over a difference in beliefs or doctrine (not "sin") why treat them the same as DF?
• 

  searcher

  If someone DA's over a difference in beliefs or doctrine (not "sin") why treat them the same as DF?

  cos believing differently to what the company tells you is a sin, (Blasphemy I think).

  searcher.
• 

  LB

  I asked the elder I was studying with if there would be any repercussions if I one day decided I wanted to quit. This was during a study when he told me I needed to DA myself from the Catholic church. He said "no, of course not, it's just a piece of paper and I've filled out many of those, not a big deal".

  He'd hate it if I called him a liar now wouldn't he?
• 

  JT

  My old roommate works in the Service Dept at Patterson and almost 4 yrs ago he explained to me the concept behind DA--

  while the wt does throw a few scriptures around in support , the fact of the matter is DA is a concept put together by the Legal Dept.

  In many countries the society has been getting into alot of trouble by directly having it's reps (elders) taking direct action against a person- for example serving in the army- well the elder will not meet with a person for a judical committe because that implies ACTION on behalf of the wt so back in the 80's Sept 1, 15-81wt came out with a clearly defined manner in which da would work

  they started creating a list of items that you could be DFed for and moving them over to the status of DA-- thereby requiring no action on the part of local elders and the wt.

  In fact if you notice in the last 15ys a number of issues have been moved from DFed status to DA status and others to "Conscience Matter" WINK WINK

  BLOOD , VOTING ETC- now we all know of th exp of jw who died for blood and voting now they have moved them from blood -df to da and voting from da to conscience with a wink wink at the end

  in the future we will see the wt continue to move things from df which requires action on thier part and the elders to da which is just a matter of telling the rank and file

  "If Leroy does this or that, then it means he has DA himself AND YOU ALL KNOW HOW TO TREAT HIM _ RIGHT -- GOOD"

  AS MY roommate puts it: "It was a strike of brillance on the part of the legal desk to come up with a "Scriptual way" of getting rid of violators and the wt not be liable"

  so it will be around along time we will just see the list get longer and longer