"I said, 'You are "gods";

Smitty

Psalms 82:6 -- "I said, 'You are "gods";

In your opinion, who does this scripture apply? Offer scriptural support if you can.

Smitty

Edited by - smitty on 19 August 2002 15:11:26

Satanus

To everyone. Since the scriptures were controlled by authoritative heirarchies, they didn't allow much of this in their scriptures, as it threatens their hegemony.

SS

A reading of the entire psalm will show us that the verse in question was part of a rebuke by God of the judges of Israel, who had exalted themselves above the people, and who were not providing justice as they were expected to. They are called "gods" in a sarcastic sense, because they have arrogated godlike authority to themselves. That they are "gods" in no real sense is evident from the following verse (verse 7), which says: But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler."

It appears to me that Jesus meant something similar when he quoted this verse in John 10:34. The leaders of Israel, like those more ancient judges, had exalted themselves above the people, and had claimed positions of great authority. They considered themselves godlike, but wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God. They, too, would "die like mere men", unless they recognized Jesus for who he actually was. His powerful works provided evidence that should have convinced them.

There is no basis, then, for the teachings about these verses advocated by todays "Word-Faith" evangelists, such as Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn, and others. They claim that these verses mean that humans are "little gods", with the potential to become exactly like God. Obviously, a contextual reading of these verses does not allow such an interpretation by a reasonable person.

Checking the context really does help in understanding verses like these, you know

Edited by - NeonMadman on 19 August 2002 15:41:55

Edited by - NeonMadman on 19 August 2002 15:43:34

Edited by - NeonMadman on 19 August 2002 15:47:8

JosephMalik

A reading of the entire psalm will show us that the verse in question was part of a rebuke by God of the judges of Israel, who had exalted themselves above the people, and who were not providing justice as they were expected to. They are called "gods" in a sarcastic sense, because they have arrogated godlike authority to themselves. That they are "gods" in no real sense is evident from the following verse (verse 7), which says: But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler."

NeonMadman.

Your answer was good except for the comment that they are not gods in a real sense. They were gods to Israel and called or identified as such in this very Psalm. Just as the Kings of Israel were also called Gods they are gods by the position they held with the people. Jesus could be called God based upon this as he was a prophet and teacher with a following as well. This is why our Lord could use such texts in His defense. This use of this word to designate people who have authority is a valid scriptural point and the fact that such leaders will die like men does not alter their status. None of this should be confused with other uses of this term God where the Supreme Being is being addressed. In such cases there is but one true God. But in the world there are many gods and many Lords and such use is scriptural.

1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

A truth clearly established in scripture and by this Psalm in fact. Then notice the context change in the next verse.

:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

So we no longer have such prophets to guide us as Israel did but are being guided now by the Father as true God and one the one Lord Jesus Christ. This lesson to the Corinthians was aimed at those taking the lead in Corinth and spreading false teachings among the brothers there making more of themselves then they should (living as gods and lords among the brothers). So the use of the term God regarding humans is quite valid and proper. It also properly applies to Christ as our King.

Joseph

NeonMadman

I guess you could say that the word "god" can have various levels of meaning, just as does the word "lord". The Hebrew elohim simply means "mighty ones". Were the judges of Israel "mighty ones" among the people? Certainly, in the sense of having temporal power over others. Were they "gods" in the sense that we usually think of the term, i.e superhuman spiritual entities? Obviously not.

When Paul said that there are many gods and many lords, it seems evident that he was not using the word in the same sense as God was in Isaiah 43, when he said that after him there was "no god formed". The context of Paul's words seem to indicate that he was referring to those who claimed to be gods and lords, but are not so in the truest sense of the word.

I think that it was similar in Jesus' usage of the term. He was pointing out to the Jews the inconsistency of the self-exaltation of their leaders to the level of "gods" with their outrage at his (entirely truthful) claim to be the Son of God. What he clearly was not telling them is that all humans are "little gods" with the ability to eventually become like God Almighty. Unfortunately, that is the sense in which many today would like to interpret that verse.

JosephMalik

NeonMadman,

Yes, much better. The "little god" idea is bunk of course. Shows how little they understand of scripture. Contexual use however is something else entirely. And as a term of authority (after all God is not a name) it can be applied to others in a context suitable for them in a way that is either good or bad. This does not make many gods challenging the true God. The Son could be our God because the true God authorized him to act as such without contradiction since this Son is not attempting to be true God, but simply acting in this capacity to or for us in His behalf. Such authority and term (God) then can be granted to others as it was to Moses. Context however is so subtle sometimes that we confuse such use and the result is trinity or some other outrageouse concepts.

Joseph

NeonMadman

Well, I don't consider the Trinity to be an outrageous concept, and I certainly do believe in the deity of Jesus. Obviously, the Jews understood him to be claiming to be God (as they said explicitly in other places), otherwise, where was the blasphemy for which they wanted to stone him? If he was not claiming to be God in those instances, he could certainly have defused the situation by saying so, but he never did.

JosephMalik

NeonMadman,

Even if the Jews believed he was claiming to be God, such use was scriptural and proper as already shown so they had no basis for stoning Him. That was our Lord's very defense against them. They were wrong, and shown to be wrong like this: John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Case closed. Such use was scriptural and acceptable even though our Lord did not make such a claim. As to the trinity and those supporting it, most will not accept this concept that our Lord himself brought to our attention. It always existed in the Law but few grasped the significance until this explanation. And Hebrews 1:8 demonstrates the same thing in a positive way as well as this Psalm originally applied to their Kings. And deity is not trinity. It also is a variable that must be understood in context so this term properly applies to our Lord as well.

Joseph

Edited by - JosephMalik on 23 August 2002 9:30:8

"I said, 'You are "gods";

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