The bible and child abuse.....

kelsey007

Genesis 22:9&10 "And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son."

I Kings 3:24,25 "And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other."

And we thought Susan Smith was mad.

II Kings 6:28,29 "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son."

And one has to wonder why advocates of the bible are (i.e. jw's & catholics though not limited to) caught up in such child abuse scandels.....?????

Edited by - kelsey007 on 20 September 2002 21:46:21

Silverleaf

Don't forget

Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold discipline from your children. If you beat them with a rod they will not die.

A classic.

Silverleaf

Edited twice to try to get the rolling eye smiley but it just won't work.

Edited by - Silverleaf on 20 September 2002 22:31:16

Edited by - Silverleaf on 20 September 2002 22:32:31

A Paduan

The rod is the rod of His mouth (and he shall smite the earth with therod of his mouth).

In typical form the wtbts thinks you should hit kids with a hard piece of stick, then make them go from house to house - or maybe kill them by not 'eating' blood. Whatever it takes to appease that imaginary beast.

It would be better if they sank into the sea of mankind burdened down with guilt, than to be teaching children how to be arrogant and self-righteous.

paduan

WTLies

God forbid you should talk against Jehovah's chosen ones on their way to Bethel like these poor children

23
And he proceeded to go up from there to Beth'el. As he was going up on the way, there were small boys that came out from the city and began to jeer him and that kept saying to him: "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" 24 Finally he turned behind him and saw them and called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number. 2Kings 2:23-24

William,

Former member of a Non-Prophet Organization

Currently hiding in the Witness Protection Program

plmkrzy

23 And he proceeded to go up from there to Beth'el. As he was going up on the way, there were small boys that came out from the city and began to jeer him and that kept saying to him: "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" 24 Finally he turned behind him and saw them and called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number. 2Kings 2:23-24

This is not something that literally happened. Same as the story of taking a sword and cutting the child in half to see who was telling the truth and who was lying? These stories, many of them are metaphors. It should be only too obvious.

The one whose heart is pure is the one who will be willing to sacrifice or in the case of the child, back down. The true mother would give the child to the other woman rather then allow something bad to happen. It's just a metaphor demonstrating how talk is cheap. Anyone can claim anything about anything but the one with the truth will be obvious by his/her willingness to give even if it hurts. And the liar will also show his/her true colors by their selfish behaviour. In other words.

patio34

Sorry PlmKrazy,

I don't agree about the bears killing the 42 children. There is nothing to indicate it's a metaphor, no more than the earth opening up and swallowing Korah, et al. and other such instances.

Re child abuse, don't forget you could have a kid stoned to death if (s)he were rebellious and drunk. Plus, if a kid raised their hand vs parent or cursed parent: stoned to death. Ditto if your betrothed daughter was unproveably raped, or if she weren't a virgin on wedding nite, or Jephthah's daughter having to be locked away (WTS explanation) altho the text says she was to be a burnt offering. And Hagar and her son being sent away into the wilderness and the boy almost dying. Etc., etc.

Oh! and how about all the sex slaves from other nations the Israelites took as POWs?

The Bible is a brutal book.

Pat

Edited by - Patio34 on 21 September 2002 13:46:52

Quotes

I agree with plmkrzy, most (all?) of the bible is allegory and and the written recording of old tales from the verbal tradition.

Unfortunately, many fundamentalists (JWs included) take the bible as a literal history and interprety it literally.

Fortunately, they do not enforce some of the dangerous stuff, like the following:

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 -- KILL BY STONING your son if he is rebellious

Deuteronomy 22: 5 -- women must never wear mens clothes (does that include Levi's jeans?)

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 -- if a newly wed bride does not bleed onto the bedsheets on her wedding night, she was a whore and must be KILLED BY STONING

Deuteronomy 22:22 -- sexual relations with another mans slave girl is punishable by DEATH BY STONING -- to both parties

Exodus 21:7,8 -- it is OK to sell your daughter in SLAVERY, but it is good if she becomes the concubine (i.e. sanctioned mistress) of the slave owner.

Leviticus 15 -- a woman on her period is "unclean" for 7 days, and anyone touching her or her clothes is "unclean" for the remainder of the day (I guess if you meet a woman and shake her hand you have to ask her if she is on her period so you know if you are unclean for the rest of the day: "Hi, I'm Quotes. Nice to meet you. Are you on your period?"). Also, men who have wet dreams are "unclean" for the rest of the day. Oh, and verse 18: if you have sex, you are UNCLEAN. (I guess that is why we now call it "doing the nasty")

Leviticus 25:44 -- slaves are OK, as long as they come from other countries.

Exodus 35:2 -- if you work on the Sabbath, you must be KILLED

Leviticus 11:10 -- You can NOT eat SHELL FISH (e.g. Lobsters, Oysters, etc.) because they are UNCLEAN. But...

Leviticus 11:22 -- It is OK to eat Locusts and Grasshoppers, because they are clean (all together now.... eeeewwww!!!!)

Leviticus 21:16-23 -- God does NOT believe in accessibility for the handicapped. In fact, they are ordered to STAY AWAY from the alter. This includes those who are "thin" or apparently, those who do not have perfect vision.

Just something to remember when someone comes knocking on your door and says "the world would be better if we would just follow the counsel in the bible".

plmkrzy

Pat,

I wouldn't argue that the Bible has a lot of brutality in it. And I agree that people of those days, but also even people of now, have been and are really sick. Not all people, but a lot of people.

There were entire tribes of people whose superstitions put the superstitious folks in the 21st century to shame. But there are still wakos in many places who follow bazaar traditions.

But anyway, regarding scriptures, many if not 90% of them I believe are metaphors and over time have become, in our minds in general, something other then it's original intention.

Think about it, 42 little boys are just walking up a road and out of the city, just to follow a bald man and ridicule him, only to be eaten by two female bears. Female bears do NOT travel in pairs and not only that but I seriously doubt that two would be able to shred to pieces 42 boys. Most of them would have gotton away. And the bald man did what? kept walking? Or watched these little boys get shredded, one at a time, 42 of them.

The story is just that to me, a story. It had a purpose probably but during the time it was written. It's just a story.imo.

On another note, it wasn't to long ago in this country that daughters were still given in marriage in a more literal sense. A boy or man would go ask the father for permission to say hello to the daughter. And if lucky a couple months down the road they could hold hands. This tradition dwindled from traditions in the past and in many places (countries) are still in the past with regard to giving away their children for goods.

Most of the laws that were made in the bible are actually man made out of the original laws. They were taken and twisted and added to and redefined until there would be no possible way for anyone to survive. People screw things up. IMHO.

patio34

Hi Plm,

Thanks for the explanation. But as an atheist, I don't care enough to pursue it. See ya tomorrow!

Pat

plmkrzy

LOL.&Pat.

All this getting stoned to death talk reminded me about the Miss World beauty pageant this year it is being held in yadda yadda yadda, Can't remember exactly, but their is a controversy right now about it because in the very same part of the world there is a woman awaiting execution by being stoned to death. Her crime. Get this. She had sex. She is not married. And she is now in prison.

The Miss World pageant being held in the same land (Muslim) has brought attention to the criminal justice system there and how OT it still is to this day.

Anyway, they put off her stoning to a later date due to the media exposure. What a trip.

see ya tomorrow. that sounded strange. see ya tomorrow. It still seems to me like we are all worlds apart.

The bible and child abuse.....

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