two ways

teejay

The Watchtower way is to take a position such as: the moon is made of green cheese. Whether true or not, whether valid or not... the Watchtower goes on to give that STATED POSITION the full weight of its ecclesiastical authority.

The Watchtower, from then on, will build its case on the STATED POSITION. Regardless of whatever information comes out that was previously unavailable, the Watchtower holds to its STATED POSITION. It will denounce all research that counters it's POSITION, regardless of the source, and tout all else. Period.

Not just that. It will then demand every single one of its adherents to do the same, even if a scattering of them have seen, understood, and come to fully believe the evidence--right in front of them--evidence that is contrary to the STATED POSITION.

The reason it does all this is because it claims to speak for god. The creator. Although they admit to being un-inspired, they are still, conversely... weirdly, unexplainably (somehow) infallible. Like Him. A thimbleful of those who've ever lived insist on calling HIM "Jehovah."

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A second approach to truth is the scientific.

Scientists, genuine truth seekers, might start off saying what the first group did: the moon is made of green cheese.

It's from here that the two groups are seen to be most different and immediately begin to diverge.

That's because here, with the INITIAL STATEMENT only as a starting point, genuine truth seekers commence to search for, gather, and examine EVIDENCE. They hope to either confirm or disprove their INITIAL STATEMENT. The INITIAL STATEMENT is irrelevant since truth, the ultimate goal, is far more important than the INITIAL STATEMENT. The position taken at the outset was always only a starting point... a first step on the journey t'wards the goal: truth.

Genuine truth seekers are free to discard previously held beliefs that have been proven wrong -- not in harmony with verifiable facts. They can do this because they have no STATED POSITION to defend at all costs. They can go with the incoming flow of increased knowledge because that's what they've meant to do all along.

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That's how it is in the real world, in JW world, and on these boards.

Just...

.

... like...

.

... that.

DJ

Ok. Let me see if I got this straight........what if a person weighs the evidence and is gullible= Christian Scientist?

teejay

Well... I guess personal integrity and honesty and common sense have to figure in there, too. :)

Englishman

Teejay,

You make a very valid point IMHO.

But what about my old Mum? She was typical English lower-middle class, married to an air traffic controller and ex-RAF flight-lieutenant and quite "comfortable", thank you very much. She lived the semi-detatched life in a leafy London suburb and her main wish was to see her 2 sons go through Grammar school and on to university.

But! Hubby gets converted, a year later so does she. The house is sold to go live in a caravan and serve where the need is great. The job at Heathrow goes, we live on the proceeds of the sale of the house. The pension plan goes too.

Moving on 30 -odd years, Mum now lives in a rented council house.There is no pension. The education for her boys also went down the river. She just - just - qualifies to maybe being accepted into one of the Jah - Jireh homes as her health fails. She can't accept my offer of accomodation as I'm DF'd and the elders would go potty if she moved in with me. She has lost everything!

So now, at the age of 80, she does not want to be shifted from her stated position, because to do so would mean that everything she has given up has really, in actual fact, been pissed out of the window. No way will she budge from her stated position no matter how wrong she knows it to be.

Englishman.

teejay

So now, at the age of 80, she does not want to be shifted from her stated position,
because to do so would mean that everything she has given up has really, in actual fact,
been pissed out of the window. No way will she budge from her stated position no
matter how wrong she knows it to be.

That is mind-boggling, E-man. Sad in the extreme. Man! All I can do is shake my head.

I guess in a way it underlines what's really dangerous in approaching truth the Dub way. You get STUCK in a position that isn't easy to get out of... sometimes is *impossible* to get out of.

Personally, I question all "truths" and refuse to bind myself to any of them. I know that is simply a by-product of having wasted a good part of my own life in the religion all those years. When given reason to do so, I'll change my mind in a heartbeat. It works for me.

Sorry about your Mum. Something like that would bother me quite a bit.

waiting

Moving on 30 -odd years, Mum now lives in a rented council house.There is no pension. The education for her boys also went down the river. She just - just - qualifies to maybe being accepted into one of the Jah - Jireh homes as her health fails. She can't accept my offer of accomodation as I'm DF'd and the elders would go potty if she moved in with me. She has lost everything. - eman

I've asked before, what is "Jah-Jireh home"? Is it like an old-folks home for faithful old JW's - run by the WTBTS? If so, then that's unique to your country. In USA, the old faithful JW's live on their own, or are taken in by whatever family member will help them. That's it. To my knowledge - there is absolutely no help from the WTBTS for regular jw's. Old, long time pioneers get their supplemental health ins. paid - as Medicaid/Medicare picks up the primary on old people in usa.

As for an old jw moving in with a df'd child? If no other family members will help them, I don't think this is a problem here - based on the "scriptural advice" to only have communication with df'd family when there is "family business" to take care of. Money always talks first, eh?

Your mother is caught between a rock and a hard place - what else can she do? Shitty situation.

waiting

concerned mama

teejay,

You have put your finger on the most baffling aspect of being a witness. To an outsider looking in, it is the complete mind control, the total inability to look at other information, even if it is logical and makes perfect sense, that just horrifies me. It is this mind control that leads to the shunning and abuses and deaths.

I just shake my head in bewilderment.

teejay

what is "Jah-Jireh home"?

I was wondering about that, too. Can anyone fill us in?

Krazylady

E-man. I know how you feel. My parents were born into this cult, and they are both now in their 70's. They are dirt poor and their health isn't good. I remember how devastating it was for me when I realized that their doctrines were not scriptual, and that my PARENTS WERE WRONG !!! They built their whole lives on a big fat LIE. I was young, still in my early 20's. How can they ever cope with such devastating TRUTH? I have made a complete U turn in my opinion of them. Once I held them in contempt, but now my heart aches for them. Krazylady

two ways

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