Cygnus
Below is my reply in Red to your reply in an earlier post. I felt it merited a separate post.
Defender,
: Was it the will of Jehovah or Jesus to preach about 1914, then 1915, then 1916, then 1918, then 1920, then 1925, then 1940s, then1975, and finally this Generation ?
Could have been. How do you know it wasn't? Jehovah told Jonah to go preach Ninevah's destruction, then he changed his mind. Did that make Jonah's preaching invalid? Did that make Jonah a false prophet? Or did it serve some sort of purpose, even though God's judgment did not come as promised?
A lot of JWs automatically resortto Jonahs example in an effort to justify the Societys many failed prophecies and expectations, but they fail to realize the context. Jonah was specifically told by Jehovah to proclaim against Nineveh. Jehovah appeared to Jonah and talked to him directly. (Compare Jonah 1:2, Jonah 3:2) Just in this context alone, the Society fails the test of comparison. Neither Jehovah, nor Jesus appeared to, directly spoken to, or specifically told the Society anything. The Society openly admits this.
Furthermore, after ONLY ONE DAY of Jonahs proclamation, (remember that Nineveh was a great city great to God, with walking distance of three days) Ninevehs inhabitants including their king began put faith in God, proclaiming a fast and putting on sackcloth, from the greatest one of them even to the least one of them. Jonah 3:5-9
Despite more than 120 YEARS of JWs proclamations, they have hardly made any comparative results. On the contrary, the failed prophecies, proclamations, date settings and other doctrines had made the reverse effect on people in general. It had dulled the senses of the world and made Gods real word and prophecies a mockery. JWs repetitive speculation and date setting, while managing to recruit many hapless ones, it had turned the majority of people away from God.
More specifically, JWs failed prophecies and date setting ran against the explicit command of their supposed head Jesus Christ, when he said that it is not for you to know the time and dates. Also warning against following those that does. Luke 21:8
: Is it a form of true worship when countless JWs enganged in studying, preparing, underlining, talking about, and distributing a plethora of publications that taught the above doctrines?
Could have been. After walking and talking with Jesus for 3 1/2 years, and then spending 40 long days in Kingdom instruction ,the apostles still thought the kingdom would be manifesting itself immediately and upon . And yet Jesus didn't condemn them or stop using them.
The operative word here is THOUGHT. They THOUGHT between themselves that the kingdom would manifest itself immediately. There is a difference in thinking or speculating about something and spending a lifetime in dogmatically proclaiming it as the truth of the hour.
Had the apostles engaged themselves and others for over 120 years in proclaiming such wild speculations, rest assured that Jesus would have long since condemned them.
: Is it a form of true worship when JWs recruited many other people based on the above failed doctrines?
Could be. Paul said that if deceit furthered the spread of the good news, may he be such a liar.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, Paul spread a different version of good news than that of the JWs. Paul could be excused in using deceit in order to win people over to the real good news, whereas what is JWs excuse in using deceit in order to win people over to deceitful good news?
: Is Jehovah or Jesus pleased to see hundred of thousands or millions of JWs become disillusioned and quit after having their expectations dashed or finding that their faith had been based on wrong premises that were ingrained by false messages?
Perhaps, yes. Jesus said he was looking for sheeplike people who would listen to his "voice." If people focus on human errors and not the significance of Jesus' ransom and the working of the holy spirit, that is their problem, and they most likely served for a date instead of truly wanting to please Jehovah.
So, in order for Jehovah to look for and find sheeplike people that would serve him with no date in mind, Jehovah instructed JWs to proclaim for over 120 years one false date after another. Seeing that not enough people had been disillusioned from the first false date, hey what the heck, lets dangle another false date and see who remains. If this line of reasoning does not smack of sheer mockery to the Most High loving God, I dont know what else would.
You are right in one sense though, in that a number of JWs had truly begun to listen to the voice of Jesus and started their path in following him instead of a man-made organization.
: Is Jehovah or Jesus pleased with the billions of hours spent by brothers preparing, printing, and distributing these failed publications.
What about the countless weeks and months Jesus spent with his disciples, and yet they failed to grasp even the most simplest of teachings? Jesus even resorted to referencing Satan in chastisement of his close companion Peter when he denied the destiny of the Messiah.
Refer to above comment.
: Is Jehovah pleased with the millions of dollars wasted in these publications. Is Jesus content in seeing millions of JWs spend their resources and hours on preaching false messages?
If it furthers the advancement of godly devotion, certainly. Who ever said JWs had to be 100% right about everything, particularly in regards to prophetic speculation, in order to be pleasing to God?
You are right in that a person need not be 100% percent correct in order to be pleasing God. But here again, you are confusing
the act with the intent. As I mentioned in my earlier post, JWs consider preaching, studying, underlining, distributing THEIR
OWN publications an act of worship or godly devotion.
Consider this;
The Society today boasts about the billions of hours spent in the ministry worldwide. But, when one asks how many of these hours were spent in visiting one sick or elderly sister? The answer is zero hours. Why? It is because JWs cannot count their hours when visiting a baptized sister.
Furthermore, how many publications the Society had published in its entire history only later wish they hadnt? Books,
magazines, brochures, LPs, turntables, tracts, assembly parts, public talks and others. All this was due to their ever-changing doctrines. How much money was wasted on this? How much time, energy, fuel, personal resources the average JW spent in studying and distributing these Wish-we-hadnt-published publications.
Additionally, the Society is aware that of the tens of millions of magazines that are published every two weeks, the percentage of those that are actually read is in the minority. A lot of JWs find it hard to catch up with reading all these magazines. How much money is wasted on this? How much extra stock of magazine each JW accumulate every year. I know I have hundreds. Let us say that each publisher has 50 mags. Multiply that by 6,000,000 active publishers and you get 300,000,000 mags at an average cost of $0.05 per mag giving you a total of minimum 15,000,000 dollars.
The apostle James clearly outlined what is the form of accepted worship. James 1:27 " The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation and to keep oneself without spot from the world."
The real questions are these;
How have widows, orphans, sick or elderly brothers and sisters been helped, when millions of dollars that could have gone to their support were instead diverted to fund the publishing and distribution of many wish-we-hadnt-printed ever-changing-doctrine publications?
How have widows and orphans been looked after, when millions of dollars that could have helped them were instead wasted on excess printing and stock of these failed publications?
How have widows, orphans and the sick been helped when billions of hours that could have been spent in comforting them were instead used in publishing and distributing these failed publications?
One wonders when Jesus finally returns and sits on his judgment seat, of which is he going to be impressed the mostA boastful record of billions of hours spent in qualified service and the publishing and distribution of failed publications, or a discreet one hour visit to a sick or needy sister?
Edited by - Defender on 14 October 2002 2:43:43Edited by - Defender on 14 October 2002 2:45:37Edited by - Defender on 14 October 2002 2:47:4Edited by - Defender on 14 October 2002 2:48:35