The way I see it is that Mr Bowen brought himself to the fore in this program. He made a public spectacle of himself. In doing so he has naturally, in a free society, opened himself up to critism. Unfortunately for the abuse victims whom he claims to work for, he has stated some very inappropriate things - whether true or not. Now his pride seems to be keeping him from just saying - I am sorry for stating the things I stated about Mr Franz in such a public forum. Sadly to me this is complicated due to the fact that all know that Mr Franz does not visit these boards. Why would a caring person who's goal is to aid abuse victims expend any energy posting any negatives about anyone in a public forum? What was the gain? Whether Mr Bowens accusations were true or not is to me not the issue. The issue is rather why would a good person do such a thing? Why would one take private conversations with anyone and make them public? Does not that betray a trust? Certainly one would be skeptical about pouring ones heart out to anyone that does such a thing. My mom writes me a letter and I post it for all to read???? This is the problem I have with all this. This makes me question the integrity of the person. If I were Ray Franz I would question the intent of any call I received from this individual for fear that my words would end up in a public venue. Did Mr Bowen ask Mr Franz or inform Mr Franz beforehand that his intent was to quote him in a public media? Even reporters are respectful enough to ask the person they are interviewing if they can be quoted before quoting them. I honestly think that this is the issue more so than bill is right or ray is right. The wrong was the posting of any part of the conversation without persmission of the person being quoted.
The real issue
by kelsey007 7 Replies latest jw friends
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DJ
Kels,
You forgot to mention squealing the tires and the revving the engine part.....Sheeeesh! Time to let this go. We all have our opinions but we all don't need to continually kick this dead horse. In my opinion, Bill Bowen has been through a great ordeal in the past year or so and most likely had had no time to heal or regroup. It is difficult to put it mildy to leave the borg.Most of us do it in a quieter way and that gives us time to deprogram and find a new beginning. That process can take many years. Bowen has not had this time to consider his feelings...he has been too busy with this cause and he will be prone to anger, imo. His personal finances were affected as well. That isn't something that most jws have to handle when they leave. He has had many obstacles and he has made mistakes and imo. he will continue. He has taken on far to much after being treating so harshly by the religion that he believed. Have some mercy and let it go. This thing between Franz and him should be left between the two of them from now on. It should never have been brought here to begin with so the best thing to do is to drop it. I hope that in the years to come he will be given the opportunity to heal and let go of the anger. I don't see it happening soon for him tho. He needs prayers and support and understanding and IMO he needs HELP. He is trying to accomplish a something for a noble cause. So he goofed and he lost his cool a few times. Haven't we all? His lack of a real apology is only further proof that he has not had enough time for healing. The self-righteous, I don't need to apologize attitude is just left over from his jw teachings. He has much to go thru still. One day, I pray that he'll be ok.
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kelsey007
Ahh might I point out that the elders are overwhelmed and the GB is overwhelmed but we continue to beat that dead horse. Only if we were so nice to all we disagree with. Could we do more in our support of changing the WT by excusing thier bad actions? They had abundant growth. In the heat of things they made bad moves- gave bad dates- lets all move on and allow them their human frailties. Can you imagine being on the GB? They havent had time to regroup and think about the mistakes they made on 1975 and now they have to deal with the reality of how they've screwed up on the pediphile thing- should we excuse them as we do Bowen? Should we drop that and give them time to work it out?
Mr Bowen has hurt and helped people. So has the WT. Wrong conduct is wrong conduct. If we are intent on beating the WT horse deader then what is the harm in beating all dead horses over again? Maybe because it just isnt dead yet. If you are going to sling the mud- look out some of it will land on yourself...... And one day I hope that all JWs, catholics, muslims and others will be OK. Till then if I decide to put myself into the forefront of a movement I had best be prepared to be put under the microscope myself. Better these things be brought out here than elsewhere. And Mr Bowen has hurt and deeply offended many recovering ex-jws. The abuse victims are putting trust in this man and his movement. If he screws this up because of personal issues these poor abuse victims will have had thier trust betrayed twice- once from untrained elders and again from an untrained defender of their cause. Where will they then turn? Is this about Bill Bowen and or about the victims? Should the victims be subjected to such conduct after what they already have been through? Is such conduct and attitudes a good, healthy thing for thier recovery or does it damage them further and fuel their anger?
Edited by - kelsey007 on 25 October 2002 2:11:26
Edited by - kelsey007 on 25 October 2002 2:18:1
Edited by - kelsey007 on 25 October 2002 2:26:20
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sf
Have a pleasant sleep tonight kelsey.
sKally
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gsark
The abuse victims are putting trust in this man and his movement. If he screws this up because of personal issues these poor abuse victims will have had thier trust betrayed twice- once from untrained elders and again from an untrained defender of their cause.
The abuse victims that I have been in contact with say they are just fine with the way things are, they are just fine with Bill Bowen so far.
And when the day comes and they are not, they will STILL be fine, there are thousands of Watchtower abuse survivors and they can take care of themselves and each other. I personally can attest to their strength and their courage.
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Guest 77
jjriz, that's because your getting older. "Once upon a time I was young and stupid and now that I'm older, I'm still stupid'.
Guest 77
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Francois
I agree that Bill has taken some very bad hits in the last year or so and has not had time or space in which to integrate these experiences. Ray has had lots of time to do this kind of work for himself. Unless I missed it, I haven't seen Ray asking for an apology. If he's not, then we have no standing to do it for him.
francois
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UnDisfellowshipped
I think it is interesting to see some of the things Kelsey007 said about Bill Bowen at this other Thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39453&site=3&page=8
The Quotes below were taken from different Posts by Kelsey007 in the same Thread.
One who post personal letters from mom on the internet and slings mud from private conversations on the internet does not get my vote.
Some have been hurt and others read through the arrogance- any way I am with you and am walking away. Thank god this man will now save his postings for his own site
There is a street named after Bill Bowen- It's called "ONE-WAY".
Princess the lies have been shown. WIthout any doubt it has been proven that lies have been told by this group. I know- lies were told about me and disproven by friends and people that have known me. In my earliest of conversations (telephone) Mr Bowen said in plain english that he desired to destroy the WT. Those that care to buy his propaganda are the same sheep they have always been. They have longed for the days that they had a leader and in Bowen they found one. They praise his guts for they have none. They have never come to terms with the fact that they CAN have a life without a cause or a leader. Lets all praise the wonderful works of Bowen. Let us allow him his human nature while condemning all others for having feelings and emotions. So it will be. Let them have their leader and praise his great guts for being the stand up kind of cracker that he is. Oh how I wish that I had the guts to announce my own disfellowshipping at the KH- interupting the meeting that I have not attended in 13 months to make a devine fool of myself. Then let me depart my inspired speach and squeel my tires to let them know that I HAVE GUTS. By god I will throw a stuffed lamb at your head I will. I will distribute the stuffed lamb to all parts of the globe. I will call others chicken and gutless for not throwing lambs with me. I will discredit all who dare deny me my way of doing things. And yes I will lie. I will deny my intent to destroy the WT. To hell with all that do ot want to squeel their tires with the likes of Bill Bowen. Let us praise our worthy leader. Let us all go to the local KH and squeel our tires in support of the silent lambs. Let us all throw accuations out loudly and to hell with those who ask for proof!
This time my tires squeal even louder as I circle out of the bowen temple-
As you travel down the one way street a set of lights headed your way may blind you from seeing
I have warned them of another cultish liar where they are putting false hope- just as they did with the WT- thats what I have done.
So ya going to go on supporting the efforts of another liar? The WT wasnt enough for you? Go for it my friend. How many of these 5,000 or more victims is he lieing about? Or do you not care about the ones that get hurt by this mission. Yes right now they feel good. They are getting attention. You pay a whore she'll give you attention for a few minutes too.
Some here are trying to enlighten others that Bowen has other motives and his words and actions have born this out.
He is on a mission that only USES the abuse victims to HIS advantage. On the surface it looks good- but it aint good at all
It has been clearly stated by myself and others that Bowen has a personal vendetta against the WT. He is using the abuse victims as a vehicle for his agenda.
Mr Bowens conduct has well born out that his agenda is not pure. It is well doccumented. I am not the only one that has experienced his verbal abuse and true stated purpose. These silent lambs will be further hurt by this man's feeding into thier anger. This is not good or theraputic. Dragon has stated this well. Bowen has motives that are not good for this cause. What more can I say. In one breath he claims compassion in the next he throws abusive speech toward others. I simply sound a wake up call for all the praise the great guts of bowen crowd.
Other than throwing support to this liar- what have you done trauma?
my expereince has been that bowen is a heartless sob with no compassion for any but that will serve his agenda. I will spout off on this every time I hear anyone praise the guts of bill bowen. I know what the man is capable of.
Bowen is USING the victims for an agenda that some are not aware of.
The abuse victims came to him like 9-11 came to bush- good timing for another agenda. I know more than I dare state here or elsewhere- but I know what I know
I will warn all that I can that there is something wrong with this picture- open thine eyes and see the light for thyself!
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 30 October 2002 0:17:1