by A Paduan 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
That last post just reminded me of something.
John said that " By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God"Does the watchtower try and say that He doesn't have a real body when He was resurrected or something ? And do they not also say that salvation has not yet come ?
paduan
Edited by - a paduan on 31 October 2002 22:44:47
What do you mean by "real?"
Does the watchtower try and say that He doesn't have a real body when He was resurrected or something ?
They believe a spirit creature was created on the third day , meaning that Jesus "spirit" was not resurrected because he didnt have a "spirit" to begin with (he was like adam - no spirit except for fresh air), not a lot of Jws know this, but according to the WT a creature other than Jesus was resurrected(recreated) and given Jesus life pattern....wierd! It was Jesus "life pattern" that was resurrected, not his body or spirit! The bodies (plural) he appeared in after his death were not the original body that was nailed to the tree, that one was disolved into atoms or sumpthin...it gets worse as you go along....According to WT his spirit wasnt resurrected because he didnt have a spirit, his body wasn't resurrected either...confused? So was I until I realised that their claiming to believe in the resurrection of Christ was a big hoax
And do they not also say that salvation has not yet come ?
According to WTS real salvation comes after the 1000 year reign of Christ for the great crowd, however the 144000 receive salvation as soon as they have died a faithful death.
Brummie
Edited by - Brummie on 31 October 2002 23:44:26
Does the watchtower try and say that He doesn't have a real body when He was resurrected or something ?
Paduan,
I think so. At least they did teach at one time that it was a temporary form that was not always the same each time it appeared and that it was not the original body that died. The original body they say could not be used again as it was offered in sacrifice. I have an article on this called "Identifying the Antichrist" on my web site that considers Greg Staffords first book where this is discussed in more detail.
But the truth is that the sacrifice is not nullified by such use, as history is not changed, and our Lord was permitted to use His original body afterward by His Father. The Watchtower view contradicts our Lord's own prophecy and scripture concerning his body which He promised to raise once again thus making Him a false prophet and/or His words untrustworthy. It was only then that many including the Apostles themselves doubted that He came in the flesh, not before. This is also what John is talking about as he was a witness to all this.
Joseph
Edited by - JosephMalik on 1 November 2002 6:47:53
Hi Paduan,
Yes, they do teach that. In the Watchtower magazine of November 15th 1991.....I quote:
"God disposed of Jesus' body, not allowing it to see corruption and thus preventing its becoming a stumbling block to faith."
Also in the book- studies in the Scriptures, Vol, 7 page 57......I quote:
"We deny that He was raised in the flesh, and challenge any statement to the effect as being unscriptural."
The September 1, 1953 page 518 Watchtower.......explained in much detail what they claim happened to the body of Jesus saying that it........"was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms."
I think that this is one of the teachings that always bothered me. I never could quite buy all of it. I'm so glad too......... Love to you, Dj
That quote by John is to reject the teachings of the gnostics who claimed our Lord didnt have a real body even before the crusifiction the body of christ was only a cloak and Simon of serine was crusified in the place of christ. This heracy was common in the first and second century. The reason the witnesses say our lord didnt have a real body when resurected is because of 1914 and his invisible comming in that year. I had many disscussions with the witnesses on this very topic. It seems when our lord showed thomas his hands and feet with the wounds they were fake only a fake copy of his wounds. Barry
Barry,
That was my understanding of the quote by John as well. I also think that the teaching that Jesus being really Michael incarnate....has something to do with the whole resurrected body issue. They probably assumed that if they taught that Jesus' body had risen then he could bump into Michael in heaven and they couldn't have that happen. This is also the reason that I was taught that Jesus' body had to be "disposed of" because Jehovah would not want us to venerate his son. Much like the reason for Moses body disappearing.
I must say that much of the teachings of the jw's were derived from spiritism and I believe that is the reason for their misguidance and I believe they will continue to deceive.
Paduan,
May I ask, are you Catholic? Love, Dj
Yes, a catholic.
Interesting responses, thanks.
The point from the wt, " we deny that he was raised in the flesh " is an interesting stance.
I wonder how they explain -
"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have"
paduan
P, they explain it by ignoring the statement "It is "I" myself" and stating that this body was another materialized only for that moment to prove to the onlookers that he had been resurrected.
The live forever book says he appeared in "many" different bodies, I think. One thing is for certain they DO NOT believe that Jesus earthly body was ever resurrected. It was given as a sacrifice and to take it back would be to take back the ransom. They ignore John 10:17, John 2:19-21 at lesuire as do they ignore Acts 2:31, 32 and anyother scripture that says Christ was raised bodily.
Brummie
