ENOUGH! Villification, 'pagan', 'apostate'

by Dia 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Dia

  ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

  'Pagan' just refers to those not yet Christianized. (Like the entire world wasn't once filled with 'pagans'!) Or those who never were and/or never will be. It's a 'catch-all' phrase. I believe it might also refer to a specific non-Christian faith, but that's not the way it is usually meant.

  In any event, it's only some kind of mysterious, evil, horrible, smurfy kind of dangerous, demonized something in the minds of JWs!

  They villify things sometimes with abandon. Like what they are currently doing with the term 'apostate'.

  It's themselves they're afraid of. They throw this terminology around the way a KKK member throws out the term 'nigger'. And uses it to lump into one place (far away from himself) everything that scares him.

  Edited by - Dia on 3 November 2002 19:9:3
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  Kingpawn

  "Pagan" may also refer to those who were once Christianized (whatever that means).

  Some might take offense at that "not yet Christianized" part. Like Paganism is a stop along the way to a higher spiritual plane.

  And it's also a label--as broad in its own way as "Christian" or "Jew" can be.

  The thing is, "pagan" isn't being used here (to my knowledge) as an insult, as you point out "apostate" and "nigger" can be and are being used elsewhere. Well, "apostate" is worn proudly here by many. And like someone else once pointed out, many who joined the Witnesses are, in some cases, an apostate from some other religion. Not that they ever notice that. It's like me being an "apostate" from the nursing home senior citizen warehousing industry, since that isn't the field I'm working in now. And since I make more money here than there, I'm said to have "advanced" to a higher spiritual plane/pay rate and who would fault me for that?
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  gsx1138

  I'm offended by anyone who thinks the "Pagan" label is some sort of insult. Being a blatant Pagan myself I find that most people are very ignorant about pagan beliefs. As far as being christianized, I would see that as a giant step backwards. I have no needs for a brutal authoritarian religion. That being said, I'm proud to be an Apostate like most here.
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  Dia

  I've edited it (try to say that 10 times fast).

  Is it better now?

  My point is they are quick to villify. 'Control the language, control the world', they say.

  The WTS takes this to heart and is quick to use it to their advantage over any unsuspecting ones.

  Treacherous, I say.
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  Silverleaf

  "I'm offended by anyone who thinks the "Pagan" label is some sort of insult. Being a blatant Pagan myself I find that most people are very ignorant about pagan beliefs. As far as being christianized, I would see that as a giant step backwards. I have no needs for a brutal authoritarian religion. That being said, I'm proud to be an Apostate like most here."

  Here, here! I second that. I can't stand seeing the word 'pagan' used by fundys to denote anything they see as having a close association with evil. It could not be farther from the truth. I consider 'Pagan' to be the name of my religion and whenever anyone uses it in a derogatory manner I like to ask them if they used the same phrase but replaced 'pagan' with 'Jew' how well they would come across to society - their rhetoric would not be tolerated for an instant then.

  Silverleaf

  edited for spelling

  Edited by - Silverleaf on 3 November 2002 19:44:44
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  Sentinel

  Dia,

  I tend to agree with you. I don't consider myself an apostate, because I am not a person who mingles and associates within the congregation or members, attempting to spread all kinds of anti-JW stuff. I've been out since 1981, not df'd; I just walked away of my own choice.

  I believe an apostate is someone still known generally by all, as a JW, even if inactive, who is trying to be subversive, and I'm not even interested in trying to do anything like that. I don't feel like I am in that category, but that is what they have labeled me and others just like me. If anyone asks me what I think, I'll sure tell them, and I'm free to do that.

  If asking questions or making inquiries is being apostate, then I've been guilty since day one. I don't believe that is the correct interpretation. But then, since when do JW's have the correct interpretation? They live and breath on dogma.

  You are correct, in that they throw that term around very loosely.
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  Dia

  Thank you.

  Yes, they find great comfort in labeling things.

  From where I sit, I see that the people they are labelling 'apostate' are mostly people who are exercising their constitutional right to freedom of speech.

  Apparently an enormous threat to them.
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  avishai

  From the research I've done, all pagan used to mean was 'farmer' or person of the land, & as far as apostate goes, the "Aid" book simply refers to it as one who stands apart. Consider me a lonely hick
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  SYN

  Whenever I talk to fundamentalist Christians, I first make it very clear that I'm Pagan in nature, and then I'll usually start by dropping lines like "I know you're a Christian - not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that it makes me and you different!" Usually they take the joke very seriously and get all pissed off & stuff. My grandma is a case in point of the more mature type of Christian that I enjoy hanging out with, who is comfortable with their religion and whatever others choose to believe (or in my case not believe at all) in, she's cool with just about anything I do or say. It's just that True Fundamentalists love putting people in boxes, so I put them in boxes just so they can see how it feels for a change!