1985 change in baptsm vows?

by els 9 Replies latest jw friends

els

I was just reading a post about the WTS possibly downsizing and someone mentioned a 1985 change in baptism vows. I apologize, I don't remember who it was. 85 is about when I started my meltdown about the witnesses so I don't remember much from then. What was this all about? Of course I really don't remember my vows from getting baptized at 13. Could someone fill me in? els
stichione

You might want to check this link out.
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/baptism.htm
blondie
Baptism Questions Over The Years
BAPTISM QUESTIONS
1913
When receiving candidates for water immersion, Charles Taze Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (1884-1916), would put the following questions to such candidates:
"(1) Have you repented of sin with such restitution as you are able, and are you trusting in the merit of Christs sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins and the basis of your justification?
"(2) Have you made a full consecration of yourself with all the powers that you possesstalent, money, time influenceall to the Lord, to be used faithfully in His service, even unto death?"
After the candidates had answered affirmatively, he would say: "On the basis of these confessions, we acknowledge you as a member of the Household of Faith, and give to you as such the right hand of fellowship, not in the name of any sect or party or creed, but in the name of the Redeemer, our glorified Lord, and His faithful followers."See The Watch Tower and Herald of Christs Presence as of May 15, 1913, page 159, column 2, under the heading "Broad Unsectarian Questions."
Other baptismal speakers would follow this pattern with candidates for water immersion.
1942
*** w64 2/15 123-4 Did You Make an Acceptable Dedication to God? ***

(1) Do you believe in Jehovah God the Father, that salvation belongeth unto Jehovah, and that Christ Jesus is his Son in whose blood your sins are washed away and by whom salvation comes to you from God?
(2) Have you therefore confessed your sins to God and asked for cleansing by Christ Jesus, and therefore turned away from sin and the world, and consecrated yourself without reservation to God to do his will?
1955
*** w55 7/1 411-2 Christian Baptism for the New World Society ***

(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son Christ Jesus?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Christ Jesus and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?
1956
*** w56 7/1 407 Why One Must Be Baptized ***
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?
1958
*** w58 8/1 478 Baptism ***
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
1960
*** w60 5/15 308 "What Prevents Me from Getting Baptized?" ***
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
1963
*** w63 6/1 333 Baptism Necessary for Christians ***
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
*** w66 8/1 465 Baptism Shows Faith ***
Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
1968
*** w68 5/15 297 Recognizing God's Requirements for Life ***
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?"
1970
*** w70 5/15 309 Your Conscience Toward Jehovah ***
(1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged (TO HIM) that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?
On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through Gods Word as his holy spirit makes it plain?
1973
*** w73 5/1 280 Baptizing Follows Discipling ***

If you feel the same about serving Jehovah God and taking Christs yoke upon you, we suggest that you consider the following two questions, which are asked of candidates for baptism:
Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
1985
*** w85 6/1 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovahs Witnesses in association with Gods spirit-directed organization?
Amazing

HI Els: The June 1, 1985 Watchtower, pg. 30, revised the baptism vows from their previous Biblical based terms to read as follows:
1. On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
2. Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?
It is the second vow that eliminates the "holy spirit" and replaces it with the "Organization." This is done to to legally provide the connection between one's baptism and their obligations to the religious system of Jehovah's Witnesses as directed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York.
kelpie

Does that mean for all those that were baptized before 1985 could say they couldnt get disfellowshiped because in their opinion they are still doing the will of Jehovah through his holy spirit.???
It was only after 1985 that they changed the "clause" to mention the organisation??
els

Thank you all. It seems like they accomplished a lot of things by changing the vows. They dumbed them down, maybe so kids that got baptized cause it was expected couldn't say they didn't know what they were saying.
They cut out the part about the Bible and the Holy Spirit, so we can't say we follow the Bible not men. And the annoited are going to be all gone soon so we don't want to be mentioning the Holy Spirit. Covers their butts about who exactly is guiding our understanding doesn't it?
And last but not least they join us at the hip to the all knowing, all powerful organization.
Reading those older vows brought back some really odd memories for me. I was baptized in 1973 at the same time as my slightly older sister. I think now that I did it because she did. She was always the good one, the studious one who got good grades and always knew the answers at the meetings. You all know what I mean. I think if I had waited even a year or so I wouldn't have gotten baptised. I think I would have developed enough free thinking to resist. And I think my life would have been very different although there are a lot of things I wouldn't change even if I could. els
ozziepost

On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

Looking askance at this question, old Ozzie's a tad confused. Now the first question starts by saying "on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ..." So far, so good. But now we jump to this "dedicated yourself to Jehovah".
Now what old Ozzie would like to know is this:
1. How is it possible to dedicate yourself to the Father because of what the Son has done?
I note that the scriptures speak of being "witnesses of Jesus" in odeience to his command.
2. How is it possible for the Great Crowd to come into a dedicated relationship with Jehovah, when only the 144,000 have that privilege, through the mediatorship of Jesus? At least that's what the WTS teaches. For the Great Crowd, the WTS teaches, their mediator is the 144,000.
It seems to me........
........that once again the WTS wants it both ways.
Cheers, Ozzie
undercover

Does that mean for all those that were baptized before 1985 could say they couldnt get disfellowshiped because in their opinion they are still doing the will of Jehovah through his holy spirit.???
It was only after 1985 that they changed the "clause" to mention the organisation??
Good question. Another one is this; Does everybody that was baptized before 85 need to be re-baptized? Technically they are not part of the organization. They are still individually spirit-directed and not directed by the "spirit directed organization". Hey, it's nit-picky, but then again, the org nit-picks everything else so why not this?
TR

Man, was I clueless in '85. October '85 is when I was baptised.
TR
Elsewhere

I don't get it... why are the questions asked to begin with?
Why are the questions asked at the very last minute before being baptised. Thats like buying a house and at the last minute being notified that you will be paying interest and will be subject to a home owner's association.
Surprise!!!

1985 change in baptsm vows?

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