Non-JW needs advice

by agr8day 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  agr8day

  First off, those who have left the Watchtower are extraordinarily courageous and thank you so much for having the fortitude to post your stories publicly. You are all no doubt helping untold numbers of people.

  I am Catholic and I have a friend who is a JW. We have had a sometimes in-touch, sometimes out-of-touch friendship for years although I have only recently figured out the real deal with the Watchtower. I was prompted by some of her odd comments and panic about her "weakness" in letting her kids go to birthday parties to seek more information about the WT on the internet. Was I shocked! I thought Jehovah's Witnesses were an eccentric but harmless sect. At times, I had even encouraged my friend to go back to her Kingdom Hall and become active (assuming that in difficult times it would be a source of spiritual and moral support for her and her children). She has had a hard life with a mentally ill JW mother, and major problems with anxiety, depression and irrational fears. At one point, she confided to me that sometimes she thought it would be best for everyone if she killed her children and herself and I now believe that her religious background contributed to her despair and her willingness to entertain this idea. Fortunately, she and her children are still alive. This whole scenario is especially heartbreaking because although not highly educated she is a VERY intelligent person, reads widely, and is funny, interesting, quick witted and creative. Had she gotten an education she would have gone far. Her son who is in high school is now becoming very involved in Kingdom Hall activities. Like her, he is extremely intelligent and artistically inclined. He does well in school and has the potential to accomplish a lot should he pursue higher education rather than get pulled into this life-draining organization.

  Could someone please tell me if a JW could be disfellowshipped for having a friendship with a Catholic? Am I considered a "bad association"? If so, can anyone shed some light on why she continues to associate with me? She has not seriously attempted to convert me (probably realizing it would be a waste of time). After periods of little communication she has gone out of her way to re-establish contact with me and I notice that most, if not all, of her friends are non-JWs. My heart goes out to her; however, it is unnerving to find that this person seems to be so sincere in her desire for friendship yet as a JW she must believe that my husband, my family and I are part of Satan's evil Babylon and will be annihilated by Jehovah.

  Also, are JWs still disfellowshipped for smoking?

  Finally, is there anything I can do? I have been inclined to allow our contact to taper off and end permanently since finding out how warped the Watchtower is. But knowing what I NOW know, I feel like I should at least try to do something positive on her behalf. I keep wondering if there is anything I can say that will make her think and put some puzzle pieces together. Should I attempt to initiate a dialogue? Should I just say nothing and leave the lines of communication open? I am really lost here. The whole thing saddens me since she is basically a good person with a loving heart who had the rotten luck to be born into this depriving, destructive belief system. Ditto for her kids.

  I apologize for the length of this post. I would really appreciate any advice. Thank you so much in advance.

  agr8day
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  Lin

  agr8day, it's always very sad to hear of stories like this, but it's not that uncommon. To answer your questions, Yes jw's are still disfellowshipped for smoking. And, association of any kind with "worldly" people is strongly discouraged and your friend would most likely be counselled by the elders if they were to become aware of it, but she wouldn't be disfellowshipped simply for talking to you or her other non witness friends. It's strongly discouraged though. I would say keep the lines of communication open, allowing her to bring up doubts or questions she may have whenever she wants to, if that happens. Associating with non witnesses would cause her to be considered "weak" as a jw by the Hardcore jw's. I would say just be there for her, and let her bring up subjects if or when she chooses. She obviously cares for you and wants to talk to you, so just be there as a friend would, and let her lead the conversation if she discusses jw issues. Just be her friend.
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  Celia

  Welcome !

  I think it's great for this woman to have a friend like you. I am sure she has realized by now that what the Watch Tower Society teaches its members about non JWs (and Catholic in particular) being bad people, bad association, just isn't true. After all she comes back to you and seeks your friendship. Just be there for her. Does she know that the Society now allows the kids to go to College ? Try to show her how important it is for a young person to get a good education these days.

  I am sure you'll get more, better advice from others on this board.

  Welcome again
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  larc

  I think that the reason some JWs seek out nonJW friends is because they can confide in them. They can not do that with their own kind, because they will rat them out to the elders. How can you help her? I would suggest that you ask her a question on something that puzzles you about the Witness religion, something that you have studied up on and know something about. If she can't answer the question, ask her if she could do some research on it, rather than you give her the answer. By all means do not hit her with a long list of questions or a big print out of internet facts. You have to go very slow with these people. One question that comes to mind is: When was your religion founded? (Answer, 1879). Next question: has your religion taught for the last 123 years that the end of the world would be here any day now...that seems like a very long time to me. You might see where that takes you. One question you might throw in the conversation soemwhere: I heard that you predicted the end of the world in 1975, is that true? If she says no, you could ask her to do some research on the date 1975 from her own literature. (They have all their Watchtower's back to 1950 on a CD.)
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  The Firm

  AAAAAAAHHHH!!! agr8day, you're just the kind of person in the right kind of situation I've been looking for. I'm going to live vicariously thru your experience with this, for I already went through it once and I'd give anything (except my soul) to do it again.

  You're in an amazingly strong predicament to help rope this friend out of the Society. Mostly because of your friendliness and Catholicity. Believe me, being Catholic is the least threatening to a JW, which means that not much is expected in the way of apologetics. How well do you know your Catholic faith? Non-catechised Catholics make terrific JW's, so it's obviously important to be able to know, understand, and defend essential matters should the situation present itself. Here's a great link of some JW apologetics with a Catholic standpoint:

  http://www.catholic.com/library/stumpers_for_jehovah_witnesse.asp

  Please click on my profile and send me an email if you'd like further info. If you eventually want to help pull your friend out, I (and others here) can help. May the peace of the Lord be with you always....

  -alan
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  joannadandy

  My advice. Be a good friend to her. If anything, she will recall in hard times who was there for her and who wasn't if it can be you instead of her Witness counterparts, it will make a difference. Just stop enouraging her to go back to the Kingdom Hall, lol! Perhaps you could explain, perhaps the source of her guilt is the fact that her church has such unrealistic and unhealthy goals for their practioners. But you have to be careful how you say it, if it's seen as an attack on the Jehovahs Witnesses she will most likely cling to it even more faithfully, and reject all future contact with you. She needs to see there are loving people (often times more so than her own congregation) who are not of her faith.

  Maybe talk to her son, see what he wants to do. Encourage him to think about college, or at least technical college (they will allow that) and maybe that experience will help him realize there is more to life than being a witness, and that in turn might lead to some conversations with his mom. You never know.

  Do you ever tell her how great she is, and all she could acomplish if she had gone to school? The witnesses are very good at downplaying secular success and even critically ripping them apart for that success, because spiritual success is so much more important. She probably doesn't see herself that way. Maybe encourage her to apply some of those great skills you were mentioning somehow. It could not only build her esteem but again show here there is more to life then a joyless church with unrealistic expectations of it's members.

  I dunno it's hard. There is not a lot you can do in this situation. Just be there for her. In the end I think that will be doing a lot for her.
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  A Paduan

  Just be a friend - listen, and don't preach with any words.
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  wheelwithinwheel

  You seem to be a great friend to have.

  I agree 100% with joannadandy.

  The WT uses guilt, study preparation,service and meetings and the"you're not doing enough" refrain to keep their members well-occupied. Wonder why many can't keep up and feel depressed? The WT maintains their members inside the WT circle by calling outsiders, even relatives, "worldy" and forbides any 'fun' association with outsiders by labeling holidays as pagan. Week-ends are okay if they are spent in service and at meetings. I've noticed some who do well and finally wake-up and leave are those who get really involved in outside interests but this can be easier said than done. Perhaps you can get your friend interested in some non-JW activities without her feeling she's neglecting her religion or that you're encouraging her away from her religion.

  Most witnesses don't bother with education and aren't bothered by the WT viewpoint on education because the "end" is so near. You might try the approach that the "end" could still be some years away. This can be argued by the latest WT prediction 1975...27 years ago ... and yes I'm 49, been there, done that, never got a decent education, and am now doing cleaning (the WT's preferred career choice) with absolutely no benefits and in 15 years its pension time ohh-ohh. But then I'm the stupid one. You could perhaps mention that you believe it would be a good idea for the young man to further his education to better provide for himself and his future family. I've been humming this 'just in case the end comes later' tune for some time now and have found a few listening ears.

  good luck!!!!!
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  Dia

  I think that what you are doing is great.

  If you really want to make her feel 'okay' in talking with you, try asking her for some of her stuff to read. Especially Awake articles that are not about religion and therefore not threatening. But, in her mind, they may help alleviate her own guilt and whatever she might have with other JWs because it's almost like she's preaching to you (a good thing by JW standards and a worthy excuse to talk with you and keep company with you).

  A few things I think worthy to point out. You might want to mention that JWs seem to have very superficial relationships with each other. She knows this. (They HAVE TO - how can you have a REAL relationship with anyone when they feel it is their God-given DUTY to rat on you - even for THINKING - even for such universal things as DOUBT!)

  Second, the WTS keeps so much hidden from its members. She might be shocked to learn that JWs have a very high incidence of mental illness, of suicide and also of homicide.

  She might be initially shocked, but this will make some very deep sense to her when she takes a moment to think about it.

  More information can be found by going to Google.com and looking for things by Dr. Jerry Bergman. He was raised a witness and is now a mult-degreed psychology professional and teacher who has written several books - including 'Jehovah's Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Illness' and a slew of papers.

  If you can find his paper, "Why Jehovah's Witnesses have Mental Problems", I think you might find it very helpful.

  The first page or so goes through all the history (take it or leave it) but the following pages delineate all the mental difficulties that are involved in being a JW - including the fact that the WTS doesn't really provide ANY connection or communion or relationship WITH GOD and no Godly guidance or interaction to help you get through everyday life.

  Even the small things. Just non-stop WTS rules about everything.

  My very best to you. From experience, I would also suggest that you pray a lot. And let the love of Christ shine THROUGH you.

  Perhaps one day, when you're closer, you could ask her outright. Do you really think that God hates ME and thinks that I am a wicked, evil person?

  God promises that he would not give a stone when someone who asks Him for bread. Would he do that to YOU?

  Would God answer YOUR prayers with evil trickanery?

  Best wishes.
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  agr8day

  Thanks to everyone for answering my questions! Your responses are so encouraging. For now I am not going to bring up any direct questions, but will be prepared to make an inquiry or two (something that would require her to research the answer) should the situation present itself. I don't want to polarize our conversations or make her feel like I'm attacking her or trying to convert her to my religion (which I'm not). Alan, I have read a good deal about theology and apologetics so I feel prepared to answer any questions about Catholicism should they happen to arise. And thanks for the link.

  I appreciate all of your great suggestions. I have printed out a copy of this thread so that I can refer back to it. I will definitely do a search for Dr. Jerry Bergman's work. Dia, I seriously considered asking her point blank if she believes that my family and I are evil as the WT teaches; however, I feel that would constitute an ultimatum for her to either admit that she doesn't believe it, or else abandon our friendship and at this point I don't think that would be constructive although the day may come when it would be appropriate. For the time being, as suggested here I will strongly encourage her in areas of her life where she is making personal progress and also encourage her to develop some of her talents, and just generally be a compassionate friend to her. Although now a more prepared friend!

  wheelwithinwheel, I am so sorry to hear of your predicament. Again, thank you all for taking the time to post.

  agr8day