Gifts of the Holy Spirit

by freddi 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  freddi

  hi all,

  on my long journey from trying to find a place where God actually resides, i have been to many a church. i know that He does not reside in any building but i do like the fellowship along the way. i used to be a church hopper when i left the k.h. but i am now at a baptist church. my aim is not to be a baptist but a christian.

  i just have this problem with believing whether or not this thing about talking in tongues and people passing out once hands are laid on them is the real deal. you know how we were taught in the hall; that these gifts died off back in the time of the apostles and how if there is any evidence of it now that it is from satan.

  i need some input on how other former witnesses feel about this and if others ever became "filled with the spirit"

  peace
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  Granny Linda

  Morning,

  I'm no Bible scholar, but would like to reply anyhow.

  Just this morning my husband and I were discussing the scripture that says something to the effect of how We can do these works and others...that WE are the gods. There isn't anything up there; it all resides within.

  Me thinks that when religion holds people in bondage with their dogma, their purpose anyhow, or so is my opinion, WE have given over our power and thus lose the connection we have with our own Spirit.

  So if there is a Satan perhaps it lies within those individuals that have told us how evil and wicked these "gifts" are when it applies to anyone other then themselves. If any of that makes sense. Doesn't do for me to try and sound very intelligent about these matters.

  Some of my best memories are sitting in black gospel churches in Alabama. Boy, you talk about some rocking and rolling music and song. At time my husband and I would be the only white's in attendance and it was just wonderful. AHHH, memories.

  granny
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  Brummie

  Hello Freddie

  Hope you will find a satisfying answer to your question, I am a believer but do not practise "Tongues", I do not disgard those that do but I also question whether its the real thing too. I do believe the majority is just a load of babble done through peer pressure. In saying that I do not give it a lot of thought, I'm quite happy not knowing the answers to everything, things are not always black and white.

  i need some input on how other former witnesses feel about this and if others ever became "filled with the spirit"

  I think one of the fallicies of the charasmatic movement is to assume that people who are "filled with the spirit" are the ones that speak in tongues...There are many Christians who have never spoken in tongues who are filled with the spirit, its judgmental for people to assume they are not just because they dont worship in the same way. I simply dont want to speak in tongues, this has upset some people in the past, I guess they are just immature, like I am immature in some things too.

  Brummie

  Edited by - Brummie on 26 November 2002 10:7:3
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  truthsetsfree

  Hi, I'm not a former witness but I believe I can speak to your question. First of all, if you repent of your sins and ask Christ to take control of your life, you are filled with the Spirit. Although some people will tell you that you have to experience something like speaking in tongues, the letters of Paul in the Bible clearly state that not all have tongues...even back then! I suggest you read Paul's letters in the N.T., especially the parts on spiritual gifts. Of course don't read them i n the NWT. You'll find it interesting.

  You may also find it interesting to know that among Bible-teaching Christian churches, there is quite a disparity of belief on whether or not the gifts continue to this day. I know people who sincerely love God and are saved who go both ways. Let me caution you (and I know that this may be a problem having come out of WTS) that this, in my opinion, is an area in which Christians can have differences of opinion and still both be saved. The important thing is that we know that we are saved by grace!! I have known of people in churches where not only do they believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts but people become depressed or feel like they are missing out, less spiritual or perhaps even unsaved if they lack tongues or some other "showy" gift. Paul clearly lets us know that this is not true--read I Corinthians 12 (the whole chapter), and also I Cor. 14. By the way, where chapter 14 talks about prophesying, I suggest you think twice about what it really means to prophesy. There's more to prophecy than the traditional Watchtower business of making predictions. There is more than one meaning; if you'd like to learn more I'd suggest you read Grudem's Systematic Theology's section on spiritual gifts. It talks about prophecy as wisdom given one from God. You can get Grudem's Systematic Theology in any good Christian bookstore, or you could get it online from Christian Book Distributors. It's very readable even for non-theologians! We use ours all the time.

  In closing, I don't want this issue to discourage you. Find out the truth from the Bible, not just from what others have told you (that's what gets people into trouble, as I'm sure you well know). As for me, I'm still deciding what I think on the whole issue. I think some of the gifts continue, but I'm not sure about others.
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  Gig

  Hi friend,

  I think it's awesome that you are seeking to fully receive the Holy Spirit. God our Father doesn't really care about buildings and signs because the NT teaches that WE are the temple, our hearts are where He resides...if when you are visiting various churches you beforehand have prayerfully asked Him to lead you, I am certain He will make you know in your heart clearly whether His spirit is present in others of that congregation or not.

  The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is difficult to describe, it is obviously different for each of us but is guiding us all to the same place. As far as speaking in tongues and laying on of hands, I honestly can't say. The Bible speaks of signs and wonders performed "as the Spirit enabled them." So I am careful not to underestimate the power involved. However, the law of averages suggests that the Watchtower is wrong about what they teach. I will only caution you that I'm sure that there are many out there who put on a show to exaggerate the presence and power of the Holy Spirit only to deceive. Remember, "money is the root of ALL evil." Personally I have great difficulty truly appreciating those who so dramatically collapse at the laying on of hands, but maybe I am just too cynical. And the Bible tells those who speak in tongues to do so in a way NOT to confuse or distract others. With very great caution I suggest that you not rely on such displays for any large foundational part of your faith. The Spirit works daily in an infinate number of ways, my thinking is that anyone who has to have such visible proof lacks the faith necessary to please God. Faith is defined in Hebrews as being SURE and CERTAIN...of things UNSEEN.

  Only a few of my thoughts, keep searching!

  Gig
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  IslandWoman

  Hi Freddi,

  First off I would like to say that I am not a Christian in that I do not believe Jesus was the spirit son of God before his birth and I do not believe he is part of a trinity etc.

  But I do believe the Bible has many good things to say. One of them is in 1 Cor. 13:1-3, "If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

  So I would think that the most important thing is to find a congregation or church that has the kind of love among themselves as described in verses 4-7 of that same chapter in Corinthians. If you find such a people than surely if they speak in tongues or whatever gifts of the spirit they display it will always be in accord with love which is the most important thing.

  Just my opinion.

  IW
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  Carmel

  One of the first bug-a-boo's I discarded when I left the dubbies was the childish notion of a personified "bad god". I encourage you to find Eleine Pagel's book "The Origins of Satan". Once you've shed yourself of this idea you are freed to look at the positive motivating forces of religion as they should be appreciated rather than the fear-induced methods of high-control organizations.

  I'd love to comment more on other "christian" doctrin I find to belittle the intellegence of the seeker, but I'm afraid it would turn into a rant.

  caveman
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  Carmel

  Okay, so I can't resist one more comment. Re: glossolalia, I suggest you get a good introductory psychology text book and lean how much we are capable of decieving ourselves and think it's the "real deal". We are truely capable of total self deciet and the powers of the imagination are astounding. I do belive in "inspirition" and know of people who are tremeandously creative and can put themselves into a contemplative trance that results in amazing insights and ideas. When speaking in tongues and flopping around on the floor in a sweat shows me some practical value, then I'll consider it as having some benefit. It seems to me there is room for understanding what "speaking in toungues" meant other than the contemporary blabbering I see in the charismatic churches.

  carm
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  Mary

  Freddi, I'd be real careful of this stuff.........personally, I think it's a load of crap myself: these people "passing out" when the minister touches them? Come on......first of all, there's probably nothing wrong with these people in the first place, and they've worked themselves up into such a fanatical frenzy that you'd think that Jesus himself had touched them.

  As for the "speaking in tongues", I think that's another joke. When this gift was originally passed out 2,000 years ago, those that could speak in tongues could speak another language fluently and could apparently understand what others were saying as well. The jibberish that you see people "speaking" today, is not a language anyone can understand and there's no purpose to it at all.