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Gig

Do you believe that the GB members, and the WT writers are consciously aware of their dishonesty and deceit? I really can't imagine, after reading so many of their articles and books, that the manipulation is by chance. It's one thing to really believe what you are writing will help people and try to maintain authority when doing so, but I've found too many examples of outright verbal abuse.

Can you picture the WT writers discussing their work with the GB and talking strategy and tactics? I can't see any other way to accomplish such controlling language than if they are fully aware of their attempts to mislead. You have to admit, at a glance it all sounds pretty convincing, very crafty writing...but once you have reason to suspect a problem, it's really not hard to see the real message...and then the crafty writing seems so deliberate.

Do they know full well they're doing exactly the opposite of what they insist the readers do? Can it literally be evil and wicked at the very top (or is it the bottom) and they know it? Can we take any comfort in knowing the GB has a guilty conscience? It would be nice, what do you think?

Gig

metatron

Clearly, they discuss these matters. You can read Crisis of Conscience for Ray's recollections
of GB discussions about 1975. Henschel told them to keep quiet about it after nothing happened,
that the friends would stop talking about it. Various brothers protested about the false
nature of the whole thing but they weren't swayed until they saw a worldwide publisher loss
in '78. Then they came up with a Watchtower article that said something about them all being
disappointed - NO APOLOGY!

There was a rumor (Farkel?) about brothers at headquarters sneering about how 'we sure
fooled those Slavs' after they lied to Bulgaria and the European Commission on Human
Rights.

There have been other off hand remarks ( like Br. Jackson's dismissive comment about
chronology).

Make no mistake about it - however much Witnesses want to believe otherwise, they
manufacture lies and deceptions in private, with a deliberate coldness, often
with a view to reliance on Witness gullibility.

metatron

Downunderandout

Hi Gig

I know what you mean. I have thought about this subject many times. Id like to think that initially their goal was good, to find out the truth and to make it known. But as we see so many times in politics, big business and alike, when a power base grows it tends to bread greed, and the need for more power.

Instead of admitting their faults they choose to cover them up and as the deception grew so did the concealment. I would truly like to think that the GB honestly believes in their work, and that they are directed by god, but really, how can an individual justify and reconcile the back flips and conduct contrary to their own guidelines and still maintain their integrity.

Its a sad state of affairs, generally in big business and politics they eventually get caught out and exposed. However, because the GB is a "closed shop" and is not subject to (I dont think) any independent regulatory organisation, their dishonesty may take longer or maybe not at all to be uncovered.

Buster

Gig,

I am certain that they are absolutly aware of the lies and deception they are foisting on the faithful. They are not just some set of equally self-deceived old fools acting in good will. Let me tell you how I came to thise conclusion.

I've been away from the WTS for some time now. When I decided a couple years ago to surf the web for J-dub stuff, I went looking for 1975 in particular. I was amazed at how easily they had sidestepped the issue for the next generation. They simply claimed that they had never foretold 1975, and that it was the fault of the overzealous faithful that took some statements out of context and 'ran with it' as it were. The GB, particularly Freddie Franz, stated that they had never said that Armageddon was going to arrive in 1975 - simple denial.

Well, I continued to surf and found plenty of stuff referring to 1975 in the pre-1975 literature. I found stuff in various sites throughout web - old watchtowers, Governing Body speech transcripts, and books right up to the early 70s. You wanna know something? If you approach the references from a strictly did-they-ever-say-'Armageddon in 1975' view, you will notice how close they get to that statement, but never actually make that statement. The faithful was clearly expected to infer 'Armageddon in 1975', but the GB maintained 'palsuable deniability.'

My point: No way could they have skirted so close to that line, so often, without knowing they were doing it. Bastards.

TR

The Watchtower, Bitch-slap and Turn Tricks Society needs to protect their vast empire, and any way they can do it is fine.They seem to think that they are above the law, even "God's" laws.

TR

outoftheorg

This question has come up in the past on this forum. I read a few posts where people believed it was only a stupid mistake on the gb part that ended up being so damaging to us and others.

I was born into this wbts org in 1935 and one of my earliest memories was of J Rutherford and his comment about women being only a hunk of hair and a bag of bones. I watched my mother laugh about that statement and clap loudly with everyone else. I recall asking her something about "why did he say that about you"? She then gave me some explanation that I can not recall. That was confusing to me even as a young child.

When I think about all the things people were required to do that was hurtful and now they have become a matter of conscience due to changes with no apology and the heartless arrogant attitude if one questions anything. I have come to believe this org. at least at some point became an evil hateful entity with no natural love for its members.

I now believe this is an evil org. with an agenda. I believe they are fully aware of the trauma they cause and that it is a thought out part of their agenda. Why they think this is necessary I do not know. What purpose it serves I do not know. Where the large amounts of money they realize go I also do not know. But I an sure that it is not all spent on properties and publishing.

I wonder if it is sent somewhere to support something we know nothing about.

As you can see I have more questions than answers.

I no longer accept that it is the result of stupid mistakes. It is too well organized and orchestrated.

Outoftheorg

shera

They are just like all the other,crazy cults,who believe their own BS.If they believe it long enough,it becomes truth.

Realist

Gig,

>>very crafty writing<< ??? to tell you the truth i have never read anything as awfully written as the watchtower magazines.

Edited by - realist on 5 December 2002 19:3:49

kelpie

Gig

As always, a very good question. One I am sure we all would love to know the answer to... I like to think that in the begining they honestly believed they were doing the right thing but just go so totally stuffed up on the way!

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