Question for Yeru

by acsot 8 Replies latest jw experiences

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  acsot

  Hi Yeru, this is a Catholicism question (as in I'm curious - I'm not throwing daggers ). I was born and brought up in a predominantly Catholic area - I mean, Catholic as in Ireland of years ago, pictures of the parish priest on the walls, pictures of the Pope all over - very committed Catholics. I was raised more or less a JW (my father was an alcoholic, never got involved in any religion). You mentioned in your reply to Skeptically Yours:

  One unique thing about ministry within the Catholic Church; were I to decide to become a deacon, my wife's conduct would NOT be a factor, however, if my wife said "NO, he can't do it!" the church would not allow me to be a deacon. I wonder how many JW wives would say NO to their hubbies seeking priveleges if they were allowed?

  Deacons can be married but priests cannot. What if you decided to become a priest and you're already married, then what? The only differentiation ever explained to me by so many Catholics was lay-person and priest, then of course bishop, cardinal, etc., who all have to follow the vow of celibacy. As JWs of course, (and I was Miss Super-Witness at the time) we made much of the fact that priests can't marry and then quoted scriptures to prove they were wrong, blah, blah, blah (you must know the routine). At no time do I recall being told that deacons could marry. It may have taken the wind out of our sails somewhat if someone had mentioned it. So, back to my question, what if you decided to study for the priesthood, being married - would you be able to?
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  Yerusalyim

  If I went to one of the other Rites of the Catholic Church, then yes, even as a married man I could study for the priesthood. There are 20 some "Rites" within the Catholic Church, the Latin Rite being the largest and the one most familiar to ya'll. To the best of my knowledge it's only within the Latin Rite that priestly celebacy is mandatory. For instance, if I were a Greek Catholic, or Marionite, or Coptic, etc, I could be ordained a priest even though I was married.

  Supposedly, one could also appeal to the Pope for ordination even in the Latin Rite. I do know several married Latin Rite priests, but these were Anglican's etc who converted.

  Answer your question?
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  acsot

  Gotcha, as for your reply. Then again, how would I know which of the many Catholic churches around here belong to the Latin Rite, or Marionite? Or are the vast majority in North America of the Latin Rite? Around here (Quebec, Canada) every small village usually has quite an impressive Catholic church. As far as my experience goes, none of the priests were married, so they would of necessity be of the Latin Rite, right? But in urban centres with hundreds and hundreds of churches, do I assume that they are of the Latin Rite? I lived in a Greek area of Montreal and they referred to themselves as Greek Orthodox, not Catholic. Is it the same thing? And why would Greeks be allowed to marry and not their English-speaking brethren?

  As you can see, not only the JWs have me confused :)
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  Yerusalyim

  Nope, the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches are not the same thing. The Orthodox Church and Catholic Church split up around 1054 or so with mutual excommunications by the Pope and Patriarch. The Greek Catholics are those who either remained faithful to or came back to recognizing the authority of the Pope.

  Yes, most Catholic Churches in North America are Latin Rite Catholic. Usually one of the other rites would have a sign out front say "St Athanasius Armenian Catholic Church" or some such thing. Also, just as with the Orthodox Churches, the other Catholic Rites that have a married priesthood also have what are called "Monk Priests". These are those priests who take a vow of celebacy and do not Marry. A requirement in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches is that the Bishops be Celebate. The reason for the differences between the Latin Rite and the other rites of the Catholic Church are CULTURE. Many of these churches are as old as the Church in Rome, and Rome respects the traditions that grew around the local churches and the culture inherent with it. Not quite the monolith most people imagine. Any more questions?
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  acsot

  Geez, good thing we didn't knock on your door way back then (LOL)! Although I think you would have been a tad too young to be answering the door to strangers back then in the late 70s :) - maybe there wouldn't have been so many die-hard JWs snickering at the Catholics in those days. Oh yeah right, this is an "apostate" website - maybe you should have been around back then! I'm still one foot "in", but at least my head is out, and that in itself is a huge relief. I'm taking care of my elderly mother now and she's been a dub since the 60s so I go to the meetings (and miss as many as I can) so she can get there.

  Thanks for the info. BTW, I passed by a St Athanasius Armenian Catholic Church just a little while ago! It's near the library I go to.

  Gotta get back to work! Thanks again.
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  Yerusalyim

  I was born in 1964, I was answering doors in the late 70's. Funny thing is I've only been visited four times in my life by dubs. Now, ya figure if they're putting in over a billion hours a year, and there's only about a billion households in the world, shouldn't I be getting visited a bit more????
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  acsot

  Yeru: If you had been challenging their thinking at all during those four visits you received, you may have scared them off!

  Scenario:

  Dub #1: "Uh oh - there's the house of that guy who kept going on about the Trinity/heaven/cults/ whatever. You know, the one we couldn't make any headway with."

  Dub #2: "Yeah, I remember, he was quite adamant in his beliefs. Um, what time is it?"

  Dub #1: "Let's see, oh it's 11:45. Well, what do you think?"

  Dub #2: "11:45? I really have to get going at 12 sharp, have to pick up the kids/make lunch/get my hair done - (in short, anywhere but here) - if we get in at his place maybe we won't be out in time and I really can't be late to pick up the kids/make lunch/get my hair done."

  Dub #1: "I know, and I hate wasting my time with people who won't reason (yes, dubs actually say that about others - go figure). Anyway, it's getting kind of cold/hot/windy and my feet are getting cold/hot/cramped. You know, we should be searching out the sheep, not wasting our time with people who already have their minds made up (emphasis on the word "minds", as in others actually have them). Oh look, now it's 11:49. Don't want you to be late for your appointment. We'd better go."

  Dub #2: "You're absolutely right. That's thoughtful of you. Oh well, we'll just have to return another day" (as they write down on their territory card that your house has already been called on).
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  Yerusalyim

  Actually, the last Dub that knocked on my door got it right between the eyes about Jesus supposedly being an angel. My neighbor came over right after the Dub pioneer gal left. The neighbor was laughing because she said it was the first time she'd seen such a sight. The dub retreating down the block, me following, bible in hand, quoting scripture at her. She was out all by her lonesome (well, her hubby was driving the van, but she was at the door alone). I chased her for a full block up until the van pulled away. THis was at my mom's house. Mom says she's not had a Dub visit in the 7 years since this incident.

  Back when I was a teen one of the local cults (Potter's House, former Assembly of God Types) was passing around a photo of me and a friend saying to avoid us as we were possessed. THis from the group that used to catch teens in a parking lot of the Deli hang out and FORCE them to pray...Geez.

  The Mormons come see my Dad all the time. It was REAL hot one summer day as the LDS missionaries were making the rounds. Dad invited the guys (kids really, about 19 years old) into the house for a lemonade. The LDS guys generally stop by every two months just to say hi. They chat, sometimes about religious issues, sometimes about sports, etc. Even when the new kids come in every six months or so, they still come by, same routine. I think the LDS have a much better approach than the Dubs. Dad is a life long catholic too.
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  acsot

  Yeru: Maybe you should post that on another board so that others can learn how not to have JWs call on them! Would have loved to have seen it!