Paradise: Heaven or Earth?

by dreamer 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  dreamer

  I'm sure that many people have different views on this. Here are a few points I'd like to to kick off the debate with:

  In 1st Thessalonians 4, Paul talks about those who are 'sleeping' as in death and the promise made to them. Verses 16 and 17 read:

  (16) beacuse the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. (17) Afterward, we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

  We can see here that the dead, (in union with Christ), and the survivors, (i.e. after the Lord's return), will meet the Lord in the clouds.

  In chapter 5:10 it reads:

  He died for us, that, whether we stay awake or are asleep, we should live together with him.

  Presumably, Paul is talking here again about those who die before the Lord returns ('asleep') and those righteous ones who are still alive after his coming.

  Questions

  Why did Christ die for us: Is not as 1st Thessalonians 5:10 says?

  Does this mean that all christians dead or alive will inheret a heavanly paradise?

  Oh, BTW, why didn't all of that happen in 1914?

  All responses greatly appreciated...
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  stephenw20

  Dreamer,

  live WITH HIM? where does he live?in what form? is there any time there? any pain, any outcry...........or has the former things passed away?

  Please let me know when you find out *S*
  S
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  NothingMan

  Dreamer, como estas?

  J.W.'s teach that this was written specifically to those who are anointed and are part of the exclusive 144,000. So really these words of Paul don't apply to the vast majority of mankind, according to J.W.'s.

  When Paul said "together with them" he was referring to when they died. In other words, when annointed ones die after 1918 they would immediatly be resurrected, "in the twinkling of an eye", to Heaven to be "together" with God, Jesus and the rest of the 144,000. 1918 was the year they teach the resurrection to heaven began.

  This is the teaching of J.W.s.

  This passage is akward for them to interpret, Even for a witness it is hard to grasp.

  The funny thing is it even seems the concept og Jesus Parousia was a little misunderstood on the part of Paul. But what we can be sure of is the Heavenly Resurrection was a clear Bible teaching, the earthly one ,though seemingly making sense in the greater picture, has little real biblical basis. I am out, still nothing Bye
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  kes152

  Dreamer,

  You are indeed correct. They ALL have a heavenly hope. Think of this, 'who died "in union" with Christ?' Was it not EVERYONE mentioned in Hebrews chpt. 11?

  Moses "esteemed the sufferings of the CHRIST as riches far greater ..." Evidently he died 'in union' with Christ.

  Also in Heb. 11:16 he says respecting them:

  "But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, a heavenly (one): wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city." (Read your Greek interlinear, "belonging" was not originally there)

  The Master promised:

  "Yet a little while, and the world beholdeth me no more; but ye behold me: because I live, ye shall live also. "

  When the Lord was raised from the dead, he "blew upon them holy spirit." Such spirit granted them all to have "life" in themselves. Hence, even if their flesh had died, they would continue living because of the holy spirit inside them.

  This is the 'living water' that is offered to 'anyone wishing, anyone asking' that they too may "drink" and have "life" in themselves. (John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39)

  Since these faithful ones were looking forward to a "heavenly" place, that DOES NOT MEAN they will not inherit the earth. Our Lord when he was raised up recieved "all authority in HEAVEN AND ON THE EARTH."
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  TheApostleAK

  Time will tell.