WT June 1/1974. End of the 1000 years.

by refiners fire 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  refiners fire

  Here is a good one brothers, A veritable masterpiece of twisted reasoning and convoluted thinking. Its from the WT of June 1, 1974 in an article "A Question settled never to be raised again". The article chiefly concerns the "test" at the end of the One thousand years. It quotes the scriptural passage that is relevant from Revelation 20 Verse 7 thru 10:

  ..."Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.".....

  Notice certain Phrases within the scripture passage that convey the impression of a massive rebellion against God. ..." THESE NATIONS IN THE 4 CORNERS OF THE EARTH....THE NUMBER OF THESE IS AS THE SANDS OF THE SEA SHORE....THEY ADVANCED OVER THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH... ENCIRCLED THE HOLY ONES. Certainly this scripture passage indicates that the "Holy ones" are in a minority. Unfortunately, The Watchtower magazine in an article in the previous issue to this one stated that only a small number would resist Gods sovereignty. What kind of Utopian paradise would it be, after all, if the vast majority preferred rebellion? So The Watchtower then has to "reason" its way thru this Revelation passage that appears to contradict their position...

  ...."Who are the ones the Devil misleads? They are persons from among perfected humankind who become rebellious. They are "as the sand of the sea," meaning that they appear to be numberless. This does not imply that the majority of mankind will rebel along with the Devil. The Bible uses this expression with regard to a number indefinite but large enough to make an impression of a big crowd.-Compare Joshua 11:4; Judges 7:12"......

  So just cause it says they are "as the sands of the sea shore" doesnt mean theres a LOT of them. By the same token:

  ...."The misled ones are called "nations," not in the sense that national or racial divisions exist among earth's perfected population. Rather, it indicates that these rebellious ones separate themselves from the loyal majority, refusing to recognize Jehovah's sovereignty".....

  So theyre called "nations" but theyre not "Nations"?Havent national identities been eradicated during the millenium? The WT is well aware they have been, so then, how can you have "nations" without having "nations"?? They twist their way thru the maze of their own making:

  ...."and attempting to establish an earthly sovereignty of their own, like a national sovereignty. They may even be disunited among themselves, as is generally the case with selfish people grasping for power. So they may have diverse group sovereignties"......

  Ah. So they arent literal "nations" but ACT like nations in trying to set up systems opposed to Jehovah! Of course their systems vary and so they even oppose themselves like REAL "nations" do:

  ..."They are united in one thing, however; that is, in opposing Jehovah's sovereignty, just as the nations had done a thousand years earlier".....

  So now these "nations" (not actually nations) of "Gog and Magog" (not actually Gog and Magog) are "like" nations in that they oppose Jehovah .As they are not ACTUALLY "nations" neither are they LITERALLY "in the 4 corners of the earth". No brethren, they are in a "symbolical" 4 corners of the earth:

  ....."These "nations" are said to be in the "four corners of the earth" because they are far off from God's sovereignty. In a spiritual sense they are far away from those who are loyal to God".......

  So they are diverse in their unity of opposition to jehovah as though spread in the 4 corners of the earth. Not only that but the "Nations" ( not really nations) in the "4 corners of the earth" (not actually the 4 corners of the earth, but a SYMBOLIC "4 corners") dont actually ATTACK the holy city because:

  ...."What do these Gog-"and-Magog-like "nations " attack? They cannot reach God in heaven to attack his sovereignty. No, they attack the "holy city." This is the New Jerusalem. However, this "city," too, is heavenly, so they cannot literally attack it. But this "city" has, during the thousand years, brought about certain effects, good, righteous effects on earth. The Devil-gathered "nations" want to destroy these effects"......

  There is no "Holy city" to attack because its in heaven!! The nations ( not nations) of Gog and Magog (not ACTUALLYGog and Magog) who dwell in the symbolical 4 corners of the earth attack a city that is not a "literal" city!!They merely attack its invisible "effects". Not only that, but the "attack" is not a LITERAL attack!!:

  ...."The "nations" come together for "war" against the holy ones and the beloved city. Is this a war using nuclear weapons or other sophisticated means of destruction? No, for earth's inhabitants will not have stockpiled such weapons or have learned such war anymore. (Isa. 2:2-4) It will be a war of deceit, misleading propaganda , appeals to selfishness"......

  The article then wraps up this sick and sorry bundle of convoluted reasoning in a synopsis paragraph. The parenthesis (bolded) are theirs, Scarceley anything in this entire interpretation is taken as it appears literally :

  ...."The prophecy says that these rebellious "nations" will encircle the "camp of the holy ones and the beloved city." God loves the New Jerusalem, the heavenly city, the name of which is written upon the 144,000 joint heirs and kingly associates of Christ. There are also "holy ones" on earth that love this "city," namely, those of restored mankind who keep their integrity through this all-deciding test. These are not in the "city" in heaven, but are on earth, in the "camp," as in a war camp outside a city attacked by enemy warriors. The earthly seat of government representing the heavenly "city" among the "holy ones" during the millennium has been made up of the "princes.".........
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  Liberty

  This is great example of Fred Franz's lunacy Refiner'sfire,

  The scripture clearly pictures something which has nothing to do with the WT Society's vision of "The New System" so , like always, an elaborate symbolic "explaination" must be employed to try and make sense of it. It flat out doesn't make sense but we lapped it up anyway. After being out and looking at these verses without WT blinders it's clear they didn't have the slightest clue.
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  DanTheMan

  Thanks RF, that was a good post.

  Good old Freddy. They're like a rudderless ship without him and his zany theology.
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  ballistic

  Refiners, a well narrated, yet small, part of the 'house of cards'.
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  refiners fire

  The subject of this passage of scripture relating to the destruction of Gods enemies at the END of the 1000 years continues into the next Issue of the Watchtower. The June 15, 1974 Issue, an article entitled "The 'Lake of Fire' and its purpose". The term 'lake of fire' is surrounded in parenthesis so we already know it wont be a LITERAL lake (lol) The article blurbs:

  ...."Who or what goes into the "lake of fire"? Among the things mentioned are the "wild beast" and the "false prophet." Death and Hades are put into this "lake." We also read that the Devil (and along with him his associate demons) is hurled into the "lake" after his final attack on God's sovereignty...... In examining these texts we readily see that the "lake of fire" is not a literal pool of flame. The "wild beast" is symbolic,.... Since the "wild beast" and the "false prophet" are symbolic, the "lake of fire" is necessarily symbolic. Further supporting this conclusion is the fact that the abstract thing, "death," is also hurled into the "lake of fire." Death cannot be literally burned."....

  Well by that reasoning you would have to say SATAN is symbolic as well, considering that "death" (symbolically speaking) and every other thing that gets thrown into the "lake" (SYMBOLIC lake that is) are not literal then Satan must be none literal too. Anyway they ignore that little problem and continue:

  ..." Moreover, the demons are thrown into the "lake." These are angels, spirit persons. Being spirit, they cannot be hurt by literal fire, which is a physical product of chemical combustion".....

  Dont you hate them when they pull literalism out of the bag whenever it suits their purpose? Under the subheading: "No conscious torment". It continues:

  ...." Those in the "lake of fire" do not have life. Their names are not written in any "book of life." And life is life, whether spent in pleasure or in suffering pain. Accordingly, there is no consciousness or feeling of pain or suffering in the "lake of fire," because there is no life there at all. Why, then, does the Bible speak of the Devil, the "wild beast" and the "false prophet" as being "tormented day and night forever and ever" in this "lake"?"....

  Good question.But just look at all the parentheses indicating NON LITERALISM and symbolic, (warped) understanding! Oh man! I'll highlight them in red from here on in... Anyway, it goes on:

  ..." It is because they are under the torment of restraint. When Jesus was on earth, the demons entreated him not to order them to go away into the "abyss." (Luke 8:31) In a parallel account of the same incident, the demons asked Jesus: "Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?" (Matt. 8:29) This being put into the "abyss" will be a "torment" because it will be a restraint."..... ..." After the final attack on God's sovereignty, the Devil and his demons are hurled into the "lake of fire," where they suffer the "torment" of everlasting restraint, without letup, in the "second death.".....

  Yeah but those are not the same things at all! The demons being sealed in a restraint for a thousand years will be a conscious torment to them. But in the "second death" (SYMBOLIC second death that is) theyre not aware of it! How can that be constituted as being tormented day and night for ever and ever?? Just in case you have a squidgin of a shred of bdoubt that theres something NOT QUITE RIGHT with all this reasoning they pull out the "exteme literalism" (LITERAL extreme literalism) again just to quash your doubts:

  ...." The truth that this being put into the "lake of fire" does not mean conscious pain of torment is shown in that the "wild beast" and the "false prophet," both symbolic of systems or organizations, are spoken of as being "tormented day and night." But systems or organizations cannot suffer pain".....

  Well, okay, whatever you say. But I wonder, has ANYONE over that at HQ ever just had a smidgin of a thought drift thru their mind that they might have the whole thing completely ass about??

  Edited by - refiners fire on 17 December 2002 2:11:29
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  reubenfine

  the demons asked Jesus: "Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?"

  I think we could ask THAT of the WTB&TC!!

  Sheesh, and I used to think this was deep stuff. Yeah, deep something, that's for sure.