What would happen if both parents of a baptised child were to be disfellowshipped?

by Esse quam videri 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Esse quam videri
    Esse quam videri

    We hear of children as young as eight being baptized. The Governing Body have tried making twelve year olds feel guilty about not being baptized. Being as the Society has encouraged [pushed] young ones to be baptized, it apparently has taken a 'keen interest' in the spiritual health and eternal welfare of the child. How far does this 'keen interest' go?

    -  What consequences would result for the family if the father and mother were both disfellowshipped?

    -   How would the elders maintain contact with the child, or would they even care?

    -   Would they just write the child off as collateral damage?

  • Awake at last
    Awake at last

    I am guessing but it may depend on whether the parents are ok with the child still associating or not.  Also the child's attitude should be taken into account.  Things may have changed since the child has seen and heard conversations between the parents leading up to the disfellowshipping, so may not want any more contact.

    I knew of a case where this happened.  The baptised boy was about 16.  He just disappeared and no action was taken that I am aware of.  We later heard that he got married to a non witness girl.  His parents new religion that they started failed and now they are seen around occasionally and that is about it.  All this happened about 15 years ago.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    Esse, I will relate to you my personal experience with a situation similar to the one you describe. However, because it is my own experience, it may be somewhat outdated. And I apologize for the length - I can be a bit long winded. 

    This event happened in 1971, a couple years after Franz had made his !969 summer assembly announcement about 1974 marking the 'end of the Gentile times' - I attended the Vancouver Assembly in 69 when I was 12 years old - and so began the ugly times. My mother was disfellowshipped the following year for 'unChristanlike behaviour'. And my father, a Ministerial Servant, who had attended Toronto's Kingdom Ministry School, became inactive and my parents were sort of separated. 


    I was forced, by both my parents, to continue attending meetings and going out in field service with my older brother, who was being groomed for elder status, and my older sister. This continued for about a year. I was never baptized. And I hated it the whole time. I absolutely despised everything about the Kingdom Hall and the religion.

    At the age of 13, I got my chance and put in my heels ( a long story that involves a go-cart and a broken ankle) and refused to go back to meetings. About two months into my rebellion, I received a visit from the two top guys in the congregation. They had to have watched the house and timed their visit when they knew I was home alone. My mother worked. Keep in mind, I was only 13 - a young minor girl.

    They came in the house, sat down and promptly asked me why I wasn't at meetings, read some Bible scriptures to me, and asked me "if I wasn't worried about Armageddon coming Real Soon?".

    I was very scared, but also pretty angry by this time, but the anger helped me get over my fear and this is what I said to them:

    "Well, correct me if I am wrong, but, what you teach at the Kingdom Hall about Armageddon is that, when it comes, all the babies and children of the people who are bad and turned away from Jehovah will be judged on their parent's actions, right?"

    Of course they nodded, pleased that i had learned my lessons so well. And then I said:

    "Well then, I don't see the point of me attending meetings, because, if Armageddon could come tomorrow like you say, then I won't be saved anyways, so it would be a waste of time for me to go back to the Kingdom Hall. Because my Dad doesn't go to meetings anymore and you guys kicked out my Mom for working in the bar. And I am not baptized. So you will have to leave and don't bother coming back."


    And that is almost word for word what I said. Even though it was so many years ago (my gawd - way too long ago!), it was pretty much the most important moment in my life so I remember it really well.

    I showed them the door and told them not to bother coming back - I was scared and shaking. I phoned my Mom at work. She phoned them and tore a strip off them both for coming in the house when she wasn't home. She was pissed.

    Over the years, I have been targeted off and on by local JWs who know me. However, during the past few years, most of those back in my home country give me wide berth when they see me. We have had several encounters that have not ended well and I am well known as an outspoken critic of the Watchtower Society. In spite of that, there are a few JWs that I have a nod and smile relationship with. 

    My mother has remained disfellowshipped for the past 45 years but she is still on the call list for visits from the local congregation. She is in her 80s and will get the obligatory visit from a local elder and the CO when he is in town. They read her a scripture or two and ask her if she wants to come back to the fold. She says no and they leave. And return the next time the CO comes to town.

    And by the way, she was one of the JW children baptized right at the beginning of WW2. The Canadian WTS sent men around to rural Canada to do a sweep of baptisms, especially children, and she was baptized at 6 years of age, in 1939. And then disfellowshipped years later, when she was in her 30s.

    So, in answer to your query about if 'They' ever give up, I can only answer from my own experience and, unfortunately - no.


    Orphan Crow

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    "Well then, I don't see the point of me attending meetings, because, if Armageddon could come tomorrow like you say, then I won't be saved anyways, so it would be a waste of time for me to go back to the Kingdom Hall. Because my Dad doesn't go to meetings anymore and you guys kicked out my Mom for working in the bar. And I am not baptized. So you will have to leave and don't bother coming back."

    At thirteen!

    Damn, I'm impressed.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    Yeah, Vidiot, I was a handful when I was young. ;) People tell me I still am at times.

    That day, though, was one of the first times I was able to speak up for myself - there was nobody else there to do it for me. I was terrified. But, I was still angry from the time I was pulled, the year before, all alone, into The Room, at 12 years of age, to be told by an elder that my skirt was too short. At 12, I "was "distracting the brothers on the stage."

    I was a born-in and I don't remember ever liking the Kingdom Hall or field service. The only good times I had was when I was able to help my dad out in the cafeteria during circuit assemblies. I plotted my escape for years and was secretly thrilled when Mom was kicked out. It took another year before I could slam the door on the Kingdom Hall forever.

    I feel I should qualify my earlier statement about 'them' never leaving a previous attendee alone. They do sometimes. My Dad had been a very active, baptized, Ministerial Servant (or whatever they called it way back then - 'elder' in today's language). He was much in demand as the Sunday speaker in the outlying small congregations in our rural area. He was in charge of the cafeteria, and later, the kitchen during Circuit Assemblies. He just stopped going to meetings around the time Mom was given the boot. 

    I asked my Dad if he ever got a visit or any sort of contact from the JWs after he left and later started living common-in-law. He said "no", never a single contact. Never disciplined, never disfellowshipped, even though he never tried to hide his lifestyle.

    And by the way, even at 80 years of age a few years ago, he stood up at his birthday party, took a deep breath, and let loose with a stupendous thank you speech - just like the good old days. Hand gestures and everything. He did the same at my daughter's wedding. He took the microphone from the MC, unannounced and spontaneously, and cut into his 'public speaking voice'. The whole crowd was impressed. My Dad still 'has it'. Lol!


  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    OrphanCrow - "I was still angry from the time I was pulled, the year before, all alone, into The Room, at 12 years of age, to be told by an elder that my skirt was too short. At 12, I "was 'distracting the brothers on the stage'."

    Ironically, he was probably being more honest than he realized, considering what most XJWs know now about the WTS's endemic child abuse problem.

    Or maybe he did realize.

  • blondie
    blondie

    I had only a wavering jw mother, a non-jw father.

    The rule is if the child is not old enough to responsible for their decisions, baptism, then they are toast.  If they make their own decision regarding their spiritual life. they live even if mom and dad are toast.

    That is why children died with their parents at the flood and Armageddon per the WTS. 

     http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/salvation-only-for-jehovahs-witnesses.php

    Look under the Children section 

  • Esse quam videri
    Esse quam videri

    The Watchtower here shows the proper view of the Jehovah's Witness parents toward their apostate nine year old child. To quote, "...the laws of the land and God's law forbid us to kill apostates [ our nine year old child]..."

    So, while we are commanded to shun them to the full extent possible, we lovingly allow them to live.

  • Esse quam videri

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