by cyberguy 7 Replies latest watchtower scandals
From a number of posts on this board it appears that many are being DA'd vs. DF'd! Why is this? Is it for legal reasons, from the Watchtower's perspective? Anyway, when a person is DA'd, they usually don't get an opportunity to defend their position. They're simply "rubber-stamped" as someone who has DA'd himself or herself! Where is this in the Bible? What about the scripture that in paraphrase says "Do not go beyond the things written!"
Edited by - cyberguy on 23 December 2002 1:53:26
A lot of "offenses" that used to get someone DFd have now been "simplified" by the WTS as being viewed as a voluntary act of disassociation.
It began with things like joining the military or another church, and then gradually other things were added to the list. Things like going swimming at the YMCA, donating blood, working at a job - like law enforcement - where you'd be expected to carry a firearm, receiving blood transfusions (1996), observing holidays like Christmas, etc.
The elders must just LOVE this new arrangement. All they have to do now is pair up with another elder (that old two eye-witness thing), make an uninvited visit to an inactive person's house, see that there are Christmas decorations on the house, then go back to the KH and make an announcement. They've cut out the judicial committee meetings entirely - they don't have to listen to you try to rationalize your position - as far as they're concerned, you were caught red handed with your fingers in the cookie jar, so to speak - and because you willingly did what you did (let's face it, nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to put up Christmas decorations) you have voluntarily declared that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, because Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't do something like that. It doesn't matter if they never made any shepherding calls to you in the eight or nine years of inactivity that preceded their visit (not even to invite you to the Memorial), the fact that they are visiting now shows just how much they love you and care about your spiritual welfare. (barf-o-rama!)
But now that the WTS has gone and "simplified" the elders' work for them, they'll have lots more time for this kind of shepherding work to find inactive people who have been ignored for years and years, and who have the temerity to put Christmas decorations on their homes.
It will be interesting to find out just how many announcements get made at Kingdom Halls in the next few months, with this "shepherding campaign" they will be doing.
Love, Scully
I think it's simply the case that they want to get rid of people who are asking awkward questions.
DA'ing them means they can get rid of someone even though they have not broken any of the rules.
This is what happened with us - I asked some questions on a shepherding call that they would not / could not answer and from then on they were intent on getting rid of me. They did threaten me at the time not to repeat anything I said to anyone 'or else'.
Of course they were keen to get some 'evidence' at first saying I should write my doubts / questions to them before they could answer them (yeah ... right - do I look dumb?!) but ultimately, evidence (or the lack of) does not prevent them kicking you out if it suits them.
I expect it's some scorched earth / damage control policy to save having more people think for themselves and ask questions (which usually equates to 'leave')
What happens if you get the automatic diassociation for breaking one of the rules, but then the rule changes, do you then become re-instated?
During our lifetimes the law will make religions like the witnesses impossible to operate legally, so everything will become a conscience issue. Like hemaglobins and military service.
I can't for the life of me comprehend the WTS's definition of Disassociation as including taking a blood transfusion. Oh, I know they did it for expediency, not wishing to be seen to be persecuting "transgressers", and also to comply with their undertaking to the European Human Rights Commission re the Romania situation. But, even so, it's drawing a very long bow to say that someone who errs has, by definition, disassociated themselves.
Why not include fornication and adultery in the list of "crimes" for which a Dub may be disassociated? It's no different, surely.
Ahh, legalism!
Cheers, Ozzie
Dear Simon,
Things have altered I believe yet again. In our case we just gave all our documentation to the local elders on WT/UN, and asked for an explanation. There was no judicial meeting just an announcement to the KH to say that we have DA ourselves.Same announcement made re: us to another KH two weeks later. In same period of time our 'return visits' were called on and 'told' they must not talk to us!! Unbelieveable but true.
Can they DA you without telling you. They sent us a letter wanting to meet with my husband and I saying they wanted to discuss some accuasation against us for apostasy. I sent them a letter that said we just wanted to be left alone and that we were not Apostates. In the letter I said if they made any statements publicly or privately to that effect we would sue them for slander. It has been around 6 weeks or so and we've heard nothing. I ran into someone about 2 weeks ago and they said Hi. She is one of the snooty elders wife type a real thinks hers doesn't smell type. If she could of shunned me she would have. I just want to know if they are going to announce it, I would love to be there for that meeting ( I don't attend anymore, but for that announcement I will suffer throught the meeting) So will I know if they are going to announce it. I don't have any contact with anyone anymore at the hall so I will I know if I've been DA or not. They better not DF me or I will be pissed. They have to have a meeting first with me don't they?
In answer to your question maybe the reason more are being DA instead of DF is because more people are leaving because they want to get out and they want to say I'm leaving you can't kick me out. Kind of like you can't fire me I quit! THat is why I wount let them DF me I would rather DA myself. I'm trying to avoid both because my husband's family and my father are still in, but they don't go to our old hall.
It appears to me that a person Disfellowshiped, was normally wanting to stay in the congregation and did something that the elders considered a danger to the congregation's health and were expelled against their will. A person Disassociated, on the other hand, left of their own accord and wanted nothing to do with the organization. Normally they state their thoughts in a letter, phone call or a face-to-face conversation. In the case of someone getting Disfellowshiped, it is not uncommon for them to Disassociate themselves before the judicial process is complete. As they become aware and disheartened, by the societies process. In both titles, each is considered Disfellowshiped on their publisher records. Although someone who Disassociated themselves is normally treated harsher at reinstatement, then someone Disfellowshiped. Reason being, there is often a apostate letter of Disassociation to reference too, that makes the elders question their sincerity to return in more detail.
Edited by - whyhideit on 30 December 2002 0:52:39
