Helping my best friend to get out.

by ColdRedRain 8 Replies latest jw experiences

  • ColdRedRain
    ColdRedRain

    My best friend is bombarding me with arguments why I should be a witness and giving "biblical reasons" why I should be a witness again. I give him the reasons why I'm not one, and he keeps on chipping it away with Watchdollar rhetoric. I need airtight arguments with non-XJW references against the following doctrines and contreversies:

    Blood

    UN scandal

    1914

    The "Light getting brighter"

    I keep on telling him why, but he has an entire library of JW rhetoric in his house vs all my offhand knowledge, and he wins. Help me even up the score.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Here is something I am thinking about sending to my parents...

    Test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world. -- 1 John 4:1

    *** Rbi8 Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ***

    20 "'However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.'

    *** Rbi8 1 John 4:1 ***

    4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    *** Rbi8 Matthew 7:15-20 ***

    15 "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

    "when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah"

    *** si 9 "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial" ***

    (1) Jehovah God originates his utterances;

    (2) then his official Word, or Spokesman-now known as Jesus Christ-often transmits the message;

    (3) God's holy spirit, the active force that is used as the medium of communication, carries it earthward;

    (4) God's prophet on earth receives the message; and

    (5) he then publishes it for the benefit of God's people.

    *** w64 5/1 277 Building a Firm Foundation in Christ ***

    It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people

    *** g86 6/8 9 "Would That All Were Prophets!" ***

    You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses

    *** w65 6/1 352 Questions from Readers ***

    Jehovah's theocratically controlled organization under the immediate direction of Jehovah God himself.

    "and the word does not occur or come true"

    1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)

    1908 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)

    1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258)

    1917 "It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918." (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 404)

    1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)

    1920 'Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89-90)

    1922 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)

    1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262)

    1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)

    *** 1989 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses ***

    With confidence in the vision's complete fulfillment, during the decades of this 20th century

    *** w84 3/1 18-19 Kingdom Unity a Reality Today ***

    Some of that "generation" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that!

    That is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it.

    Edited by - Elsewhere on 6 January 2003 14:58:29

  • ColdRedRain
    ColdRedRain

    All nice arguments, but he'll just use the common JW copout "We've changed since then."

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    The constant prediction for the End of the World throughout their whole history shows they have NOT changed.

    Their blatant dishonesty on the blood issue shows they have NOT changed. People are dying over this doctrine....still.

  • chester
    chester

    Elsewhere,

    That is a great answer. I was just getting ready to post those same scriptures in Deu 18:20-22.

    Coldredrain,

    20 "'However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.'

    If your friend believes the bible is the word of God how can he argue that the word of God has changed.

    WT had to change because what they said did not come true.

  • Adonai438
    Adonai438

    Hello :)

    I'm an oldie to this site but don't get here much lately. I have been out of the WT for 7+years now & my husband and I have a ministry in our area to JWs and other cults. I know what they will say before they say it and why.

    THE BEST THING YOU CAN USE IS THE BIBLE AND THEIR OWN WORDS.

    The Bible because its the only authority and they mutually accept that. Their own words to show you aren't pulling their arguments out of no-where and to show their inconsitencies.

    Have you visited : http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/ Yet?

    Very good site that catagorizes WT quotes. You no doubt know that their Bible is different and poorly translated too. You will probably want another translation for yourself but be able to prove some things from their own twisted version- most of this can all be proven even with the NWT. I am not sure what you still need info on so please email me if you'd like to talk further

    <><Angie

  • Beans
    Beans

    http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com

    They love it when you use there own material!

  • No Apologies
    No Apologies

    ColdRed,

    Its very simple. Find a calendar. Note the year, 2003. The end ain't here. According to JWs, I should never have graduated high school.

  • ColdRedRain
    ColdRedRain

    And if you did graduate high school, would you have gone to college, you heathen?!

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