Hey I need your help folks

by Iron Eagle 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  Iron Eagle

  Hey folks

  I really need your help

  Over the past couple of years , Ive been viewing so called 'apostate' material from one source or another over the internet. I guess I have been leading a 'double life' as the JW's love to put it ; whilst still going to the meetings I was still reading things about the history of the borganization . It was kind of a drug to me ; once I started looking I just couldnt stop. ( hey this could turn out like a 'Watchtower saved me' stories like those in the magazines!! ... dont worry it wont )

  I guess It all started for me one night a couple of years back when I got home from a meeting and I went online . I started reading about the UNITED NATIONS scandal , and whilst I was intrigued In what I was reading , I still felt a massive sense of guilt because I really felt that Satan had crept into my life ...... somehow down the phonelines !!!

  After this obviously I started to view more and more material , In a way similar to that of when you first start studying with the Witnesses you just want to learn more and more about this prospect of living on earth with big furry animals and beautiful sisters surrounding you picking berrys and apples off trees.

  At this point I came across the '65 questions you must ask a JW' . I printed these questions off and started to study them intently . I was out of work at the time so I had plenty of time.

  However , as I started to do so , I realised that the person who contributed to these questions obviously wasn't for us , he was against us ! So I went down every avenue possible to eliminate anything this person said ! In time , I answered all 65 questions satisfactory to me , and reinforced my beliefs in the doctrinal structure of JW's.

  A few months went by and I had a suden surge of Kingdom activity. I remember going to an assembly and coming back really upbeat and resolute that I would do anything for Jehovah , as 'Satan had tested me but Jehovah made me see the light'.

  I became so confident that this was where I belonged , here In Jehovahs only true organization on earth. Everything seemd to fall into place , and despite a hicup at a convention in Nottingham , England ( where I met this girl but nothing developed :-( .....I was well upset ) In the summer leading up to 9/11 , everything seemed to be going well.

  Do you remember when you were a JW and things were going right ? Didn't it seem to you like nothing could bring you down? It was like a coat of ammour that nobody could destroy . Well that was how It went for me for a while.

  That feeling soon disapeared . I remembered the way In which I had 'examined' the scriptures so closely when I was studying the 65 questions. It was with the help of the Societys publications !!! I cant understand why It didnt come to me at the time , but thankfully It did come to me eventually. For example I studied the question of where the 'Great crowd' was situated ; In the Reverlation book it says blablabla ... yeh thats what it means !!! Or so I thought.

  So then I went back to 'spiritual darkness' (lol) and became less and less spiritually active . This was when I read Ray Franz 2 books ( thankyou Ray you saved my life man ) . This was when It really did all fall into place for me. Everything I had read and heard all began to add up in my mind ; I finally began to set myself free from the mumblings of old men In Brooklyn , NY.

  I am still on paper a member of the congregation here In England . A week ago an elder stopped by and more or less called me 'spiritually immature and weak' and went on to say that I was really confused etc. I spoke to him about several things , i.e. heavenly life , but when I brought up the subject Of Jesus being EVERYBODYS mediator , he answered in a way I would never have imagined . He said Jesus WAS everybodys mediator , full stop. Not that he was just mediator for the 144k.

  Can anybody please help me and give me advice on what to say to him next time ... where in the JW publication does it say that , and what other points can I bring up ?

  Thanks for listenening to my ultra boring story folks !!!!!!!! It sounds good to me is all !!
• 

  happy man

  hello iron eagel.

  Funny i think we have a radher similar expiriens, myself start reading on internet 2 years ago, ben elder fore over 20 year and quite a few years ago.

  Today we have a speach about this topic, and i talk to the speaker after and tell him.

  , this was a thing i dont understand so well, and tell him about what WT say, it is not so easy to understan our point of wuie on this, even when you listen to the talk, not so easy fore mee to tell in english.

  If you lokk under ransom in wt 1979, and 1989, i think you find some answers, 15-9 -89 sid 30-31.

  I dont sa this is wrong or right, but it is littel difficult to understand.
• 

  Nowhere

  Hi!

  Great story.

  One thing you can ask him about is whether Jesus is the archangel Michael or not.

  Nowhere in the bible there is any mentioning of Jesus as an angel of any sort. Read chapter one of Hebrews and things will get crystal clear. Jesus is not an angel.

  They will probably bring up the stupid argument that in 1 Thes 4:16, Jesus is using the voice of an archangel, therefore must be the archangel Michael. But they never finish that scripture, because the next part of the verse tells us that he is also using the trumpet of God. Which with the same reasoning would make Jesus God.

  /Good luck
• 

  Kingpawn

  Iron Eagle,

  Can anybody please help me and give me advice on what to say to him next time ... where in the JW publication does it say that , and what other points can I bring up ?

  There are so many things you could point out to him. For example, while in Gen. 9:4 blood is forbidden, only animal blood is mentioned. Further, in 1 Sam. 14:32-35 the Israelites ate unblooded meat. Did they die for it? No, they had to make sacrifices to atone for it, but even after breaking an explicit command from God nothing else happened. (Compare this with those who murmured against Moses in the wilderness at Num. 16:1-50.) So why do they consider blood transfusions a df'ing offense?

  The UN scandal--for decades they called it the Beast and criticized the Pope in a 1979 quote for saying the people of the world looked to the UN as the hope for the future. Yet ten years or so later, here they are dancing cheek-to-cheek with It, the highest example of Satan's power over the world.

  Why were Witnesses in Malawi allowed to be tortured and die rather than be involved in politics, but Witnesses in Mexico were, from what I've read here, allowed to bribe officials to get party cards showing they were active in politics?

  It's a proven fact Witnesses have been convicted and imprisoned for child molesting. Yet so often when it's been brought to the elder's attention, their response is to df the accusers ("creating divisions;" "casting reproach on Jehovah's name") and not notify authorities many times (as is required in some states here), citing 1 Tim. 5:19. How many times does someone molest a kid with witnesses to it?

  Why is (or was) the WBTS listed as a majority stockholder in one company, which itself is a majority stockholder of another company producing a ceramic engine that the US military is very interested in for use in military transport vehicles? What kind of pacifism is that? And stock ownership--isn't that showing a lack of faith that "Jehovah will provide for the work," and when it stops that'll be the sign the end is near?

  Do a search on here by keywords and you'll find other posts on the subject and where the proof can be found. And when he tries to steer you onto another topic, or make it all seem like a pack of lies because it's found on an "apostate website" (they use that word like conservatives here in the 1950's tarred political enemies with "Communist," "Red" and "fellow traveler" to name a few, as a convenient smear word designed to promote fear and disgust in the listener, not leaving them in a frame of mind to remember that "there's two sides to every story," and that "where there's smoke, there's fire"), stick to your guns and you'll get outright denials eventually. What else can he do? If he admits it that's going to send your faith right into the loo, and then he has to explain why he's stuck with the Society in spite of their past record.

  A while back Jerry Bergman started a thread asking if some of us would be better off as Witnesses. Unfortunately the answer is yes. Some people have invested so much time, effort, and belief into the Society's teachings that when the house of cards falls their mental health will go with it or be dealt a severe blow. And/or they're so scared (ever notice how much FEAR is a central part of their belief system--FEAR of not living through Armageddon, FEAR of demons, FEAR of being kicked out/reproved, etc?), that all other religions are shot through with Satanic influences that they literally quake even considering going to another church.

  Good luck.
• 

  Tish

  Hi Iron Eagle,

  I can't help much as I am very confused myself, but being a regular Nottingham Assembly attender I used to always mock those "apostates" that always used to huddle around the river end of the ground trying to convert us!! Now I know they were trying to make us see the "light".

  I think that most of us ex Jay Dubbs used to throw ourselves into the "truth" to make use feel better, but isn't it amazing that as soon as you don't do everything that elders call you "weak" "immature" etc.

  Why don't you ask your elder why he disagrees with the society on the issue of the Jesus being mediator for just 144,000? as they stated in "Questions from Readers".

  Luv

  Tish
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  Iron Eagle

  Hi Tish

  Good 2 c somebody else went to Nottingham !!!

  Do u ever remember sitting at the top of the south stand and imagining swinging out onto the pitch ?

  Or do you remember that guy that ran onto the pitch screaming abuse?!

  hahaha! probably not !
• 

  Fe2O3Girl

  Hello Eagle - is this what you are looking for?
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  david_10

  Hello there, Iron Eagle. Welcome to the Board. In answer to your question, I would suggest that, unless you're wanting to get disfellowshipped, you better not say anything. You're on thin ice, and elders are trained to ferret out any sign of apostacy and cut it off. If you start quoting any of the fine suggestions made here, the elder is going is going to immediately realize what you've been doing and where your thinking is heading, and you will surely be disfellowshipped, PDQ. Now if that doesn't bother you, then go ahead and give it to him with both barrels. But for most people, it is usually better to try to do a slow fade and take things nice and easy. And so my advice to you or anyone who is wanting to leave the organization is : KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Don't confide in anyone, not even close friends or family ; things said in confidence have a funny way of coming back to haunt you. Good Luck, IE, and again--------welcome to the Board.

  David
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  Tish

  Hi IE,

  Yes I do remember waking up in the middle of a very interesting talk to some burley henchman grabbing a mad "apostate" from the platform, but as usual the borg had turned off the microphone so we could only take what they said for what happened! It did indeed wake the whole stadium up, but we still had half the afternoon to listen to!

  Do you remember the time the "apostates" made a massive banner with scriptures quoted and a message directed to the stands, but if you looked like you were reading it, people were waiting to report you back to your elders!

  Tish
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  NewLight2

  I think that this link will have the information you are seeking:

  Jehovah's Witnesses - Who is Your "Mediator?"
  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7831/mediator.html

  And here are some more links for you that will give you more information to share with the elders:

  EHOVAH'S WITNESSES: A CRITICAL ANALYSIS
  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7831/

  Shaun's Research on the Jehovah's Witnesses
  (Site Contains Photo Documentation )
  http://www.jwfiles.com/index.htm

  My home page - Has lots of links to valuable information
  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/5385/Links1.html