my first doubt

by jesusstolemyhotrod 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • jesusstolemyhotrod
    jesusstolemyhotrod

    Hello again,

    This will be my first post with a specific topic. I posted here yesterday for the first time. I wanted to start by saying how nice it was to be so warmly welcomed by those of you that took a minute to say hi. I wanted to clarify something though. In my first post, I mentioned that I had lost someone close to me to suicide when they were df'd. It has been assumed and i am to blame for that that it was a friend of mine. The fact is that it was my brother. I am not sure why I did not say that right of the hop, i am guessing it was nerves, and not wanting to unload on my first go I guess. My apologies.

    I was very heavily involved with the JW's while growing up. I was raised in the "truth" as the expression goes. My grandfather was one of the originals in my hometown. He basically ran the congregation before there even were elders. My father was made an elder when the elder arrangement was first brought in. I was destined for greatness. When I was in high school I even got the crap kicked out of me for being a witness. I was used as an example. The pressure after that moment was the reason I got baptized. I was pushed into it as an example to other youngsters. I remember all the people that I was not allowed to hang out with growing up as they were "bad". I gave talks at a young age, had all sorts of jobs in the hall, and was made a ministerial servant at 19.

    Truth be told, there was alot they did not know about me. I had been having doubts since I was about 16. I had basically been leading one of those "double lives" I heard so much about growing up. If you can believe this, I would leave early for the meetings cause it was my job to open the hall, and i would be smoking on the way. I hid that for years, until, I got caught and was ratted out.

    Anyway, the point of this post was to share my first feelings of doubt. I remember, shortly after being baptized, starting to really think about things and god and what it all meant. I could not seem to get my head around one thing. And that was why a loving god would allow the world to get so completley messed up. Even if he had some grand plan or vision, surely what was going on in the world at that stage had proved his point. Why would he allow so much in the way of pain and suffering if he really cared. And then a light went on and i started to really think about it.

    First......to believe in god one must except a few things. He has no start or finish, he is all powerful and omnipotent. He sees the future, and knows exactly how it will all go down so to speak. This made me think. If that were true, then even before starting creation, before he made his first anything, he would have had to have known that Satan would rebel, and many would follow. He would have had to have known that Adam and Eve would mess up. If he is so all powerful, the end result of what he started should have been crystal clear to him (or her). My first question then was why go ahead with it. Why not, just not make Satan. Would that have not been easier. Look at all the horrible things that have happened in the world. Millions dead and tortured in wars. Disease, famine, and untold human suffering. For what. To prove some point about how man needs god.....how arrogant.

    This lead me to believe that there are only two possibilities. If the above was the case, then a perfect god of unlimited love, created on purpose a system that was doomed to fail. He knew that it would fail and lead to all the horrors that our world knows. If you know something is going to happen and you do it anyway, that means you did it on purpose. So.....to sum up....

    God either deliberatley went ahead and made what we live in on purpose, which is apparently impossible for him to do as nothing bad ever comes into his heart. Or he is falible after all......in that he created something that failed.

    Just my thoughts....thats all

    Feel free to lambast me if you all think it is needed

  • Perry
    Perry

    Excellent post ....mind if I call you Rod?

    The question of evil has perplexed philosophers for eons. There is not a satisfiable answer to that question if you ask me. If there is a God, that will be the first question I ask him.

    Welcome aboard.

  • email
    email

    In many ways I can relate to your story... I also used to have doubts ever since I can remember... but always waited for "new light"... now, I will doubt absolutely ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that comes from the WTBTS... Plus, I have many doubts of my own.

    Like I always say... I rather not know everything but the things that I know to know them right rather than THINK I know everything or have the answer to everything and be WRONG.

    ("email")

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    Aw hon we arent gonna lambast ya...you are entitled to your opinion, and frankly a lot of us see it that way as well. I for my part, went from believing we needed religion to have God in our lives to thinking that religion and ALL religious text books are mallarky, that they are just mans way of trying to fit God into their little mind box using the tools they have. We tend to think of Him in human terms...created God in OUR image if you will. I believe now that God isnt ANYTHING like man has painted him even on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel :) And he doesnt create things to watch them fail, he doesnt know everything we are going to do any more than we know what our kids are going to do or be when they grow up. He has made us, placed us here, and given us the gifts to make our way. Yeah...the world has a lot of thing wrong with it...it ALWAYS has. And there are a lot of wonderful wonderful things happening here too. It depends on what you tend to look at you know? Thanks to CNN we see all the BAD in the world incessantly and the wasnt the case up until only a few short decades ago. I dont go around with rose colored glasses by any means, but I am not going to continue as I did when I was a JW constantly incessantly and terminally talking about how BAD things are and how GOD is angry and GOD is going to destroy us and God keeps tabs on who is naughty and nice blah blah....nonsense. To me anyway. Welcome to the board. There are some incredibly wonderful people here from whom I have learned sooooo much and who have been soooo supportive to me over the years. You will find that too.

  • Francois
    Francois

    I don't see anything wrong with your reasoning at all, given the amount of information you, and all of us, have to base our opinions on. I really think that God take a bad rap because of that damned bible - which can be used to prove any thing you want. That's how come there's so many different "Christian" religions, every one of 'em claiming to be the only one wid de troof.

    What if God didn't do any of this? What if all the universe of universes, all life, everything was created by agencies of God? What if the universe teems with life? What if there were billions and billions of planets that support life? And the administration of all these planets and all the folks what live on them is done by more agencies of God? And what if these agenices of God are not infallible, not quite perfect but close? Then you would expect to see a planet every once in a while fail of perfect administration. Not many, but a few. I mean in a universe with billions and billions of inhabited worlds, you'd expect one or two to flub up now and again, wouldn't you? And remember, God didn't do this, agencies of God did: you know seraphim, supernaphim, angels of one sort or another, sons of God of one degree of perfection or another.

    When you think of it like this, it becomes easier to understand, don't it?

    I'll quit now, since I think I've given you something to think about and you can get back to me on it later after you've thought about it and we can discuss it if you like.

    Good to have you here. Hope you stick around.

    francois

  • Shakita
    Shakita

    hi

    Welcome to the board.

    Sorry about your brother. That is so sad.

    I am where you are about God. God has some very disturbing questions he needs to answer, in my opinion. I am waiting. Hope he shows up soon to answer them, not sure what he is waiting for.

    Glad to see another new one here. Take care.

    Mrs. Shakita

  • ESTEE
    ESTEE

    Welcome to the forum Jesustolemyhotrod!!!

    (Sometime I wanna hear about where you got your nic from. . .?)

    Very sorry to hear about your brother's suicide. Thanks for sharing your story with us here on the forum. I hope you will feel free to talk as much as you want about it. . .talking will help you to heal. . .

    (((((You are loved!)))))

    ESTEE

  • happyout
    happyout

    Hi, and did you report jesusforstealingyourhotrod?

    I am sorry to hear of your brother's death, it's so hard to understand other's paths sometimes. I wish you and your family all the best. I hope you will find comfort and good friends on this board, it's been a real blessing to me. I think the question of God's existence is one that NO ONE can answer with certainty until the instant they die. You can think all you want, you can have all the "faith" you want, but you can't KNOW until you either meet him/her or you don't. Since I find comfort in prayer, I choose to believe there is a God, who has a higher purpose than my little pea brain can comprehend. That's what I believe, but I respect and understand those who disagree. Whatever you believe, I hope it helps you get through the day.

    Take care, and welcome to the board.

    Happyout

  • Valis
    Valis

    jesus...I like the way you explain the whole god knowing the future thing...it really takes some serious delusion to believe that god would have let thousands of years of death and destruction go on just to prove a point to an inferior being. Welcome to the forum..

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    I doubt that doubting is bad for your health.

    I have enjoyed reading what you have to say, HotRod. I can recommend a great book for you to read, considering what's on your mind. It's called The Gospel According to Jesus Christ by Jose Saramago.

    It's quite skeptical, yet beautiful.

    cellmould

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