Types, Anti-types, 1st, 2nd, 3rd Fullfillments

by RubaDub 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  RubaDub

  Is it just my distorted, critical reasoning and viewpoint on matters or has anyone here (i'm still new here) ever commented about why things appear so complex and complicated? I mean is it possible that a lot of the things we read in the Bible should be taken at face value?

  Of course there is a lot of symbolism in the Bible. In Revelation for example, John was given a vision, obviously symbolic. Daniel had dreams. Fine.

  But there are so many things that it seems we over-analyze and complicate.

  For example, Jesus often taught using illustrations. They include things like showing love, being "on the watch," not putting all of your trust in material things, etc. Fine. Leave it at that.

  Why do we seem to take a simple parable or illustration and come up with all sorts of convoluted (IMHO) meanings, and double meanings and this pictures this or that, and this is anti-typical of this or that .... and anyway, in the end, everything seems to end up picturing Chistendom or the Anointed. ?

  I mean, did everyone in the Bible have to picture someone else ? Is it possible that unless otherwise specified, that the person is actually just that person and we can learn from what THAT PERSON did, either good or bad ??? Why is everything the Greater this or Greater that, the Jeremiah class, Greater Whoever ...

  We have been taught that the Bible was written for the "common person" to understand, not just the scholarly. When I see "common" people with something like the Isaiah book, I mean, come on now! And then later we learn that what we thought it meant last week has changed, and it really doesn't mean that any more and on and on.

  Sorry I'm rambling this time but maybe, just maybe, unless otherwise stated, things are a lot simpler and easier to understand than we are led to believe.

  *****Rub a Dub
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  Liberty

  Good points Rub a Dub,

  The Watch Tower religion is built on all this complex nonsense because otherwise it would have had nothing new to sell and would have been just another run-of-the-mill Protestant denomination among hundreds. Many of the dumbest concepts evolved from the constant tweaking done to explain an original idea that didn't make any sense in the first place. Revisions upon revisions which gave us such gems as the goofy reasonings about the literal 144,000 annointed class which eventually paints the Watch Tower leaders/writers into a corner which defies all logic because it was based upon nothing but imagination in the first place. Ray Franz called this complex rationalizing "mental gymnastics" and his uncle Fred was a master at this contorsionist act. Logic and facts have to be "reasoned" away so that the inherant contradictions of the Watch Tower dogma can be made believable by baffeling the audience with bull shit known in Dubdom as "deep spiritual thinking". Part of why the Watch Tower is in such trouble today is that Fred Franz is dead and no one else has his talent for "explaining" the unexplainable, the other reason is that so many of Fred's explainations were essentially time delaying tactics whose time has run out. The "Generation" teaching being just one of many that those left behind after Freddy's death must now deal with. Any application of logic to the basic Watch Tower beliefs will destroy the whole structure much like bad special effects can spoil the make believe fun in a fantasy movie. Once the suspension of disbelief is broken the whole thing unravels because there is no inherent reality there in the first place to hold it all together.
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  apologia

  Quite right. One of the tactics used by the WTB&TS is to confound a subject and take on an appearance of truth.
  This is one of the reasons that the alteration of John 1:1 has been so sucessful for them. Most people won't take
  the time to investigate the passage in the original language and see for themselves that the original Greek
  transcript does not mention the Word as "a god". In fact, the transliteration is "And God was the Word."
  Even so, you'll find many a Witness state that "a" and "little g" are present. It's just not so.
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  logansrun

  Oh, come on! You really don't think there is a greater fulfillment to Deborah's camels?

  Bradley
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  link

  Don't forget, these Types, Anti-types and Fullfillments can be Literal or Figurative.

  The combination becomes mind boggling.

  link
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  peacefulpete

  This method of Scriptura exegesis is hardly new to the world. For instance the Essenses (pre-christian jewish sect)saw prophetic type/antitype patterns in every passage. All stories of the OT were seen as prophetic allusions to themselves and their special relationship with God. This bouyed their unshakable belief in an imminent judgement and reward by God. In part this was likely due to the idea of time being cyclical. Anyway since the simple reading of the text results in little or no emotional impact this approach of "seeing" prophecy in every account enlivens the stories and makes them seem personally vital. An endless source of scriptural commentary/debate is created.
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  uriah

  You know Rubadub I have voiced that same question. The kingdom message is a simple one and I couldn't get my head around all this antitype and the like. Often the WTS would say that the message was hidden from the intelligencia but but that it was the 'lowly ones' that would accept and understand it. I asked that same question of an elder once and said 'that if it is so simple so that real dorks could grasp it why is it so complicated and convoluted that we need all these books to explain what is essentially a simple message'. The answer was both complicated and convoluted and I was none the wiser but told to '...leave it with Jehovah and that when he had a question he would leave it on the shelf and 'Lo! 6 months later a watchtower would come out answering that very question', (beaming kingdom smile). I think that simple messages don't sell books and don't need hulking great organisations.