Arguing like a Witness...

by Abaddon 4 Replies latest jw friends

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  Abaddon

  As JW's, we (speaking for xJW's) were defined by our rightness. We were right, and therefore good. The world was wrong, and therefore it was bad.

  This classic black/white thinking was held in place by all sorts of methods people in high-control groups are 'taught' to deal with inconvenient things like facts that don't fit their world view.

  Now as xJW's, we redefine the paradigms by which we live our lives. We do that in different ways.

  Yet do we still retain a subconcious feeling that right is good and wrong is bad? Do we slip into old mental habits to deal with things that don't fit our world view, because if we are wrong about something, then we are also by definiton, bad?

  Witnesses could not change their opinion. It was immutable.

  Are we more liable to an imobility of opinion even in the face of facts?

  I have observed that over and above behaviour I have seen in other online comunities, arguing with an xJW can sometimes be like walking into a propellor. Right or wrong, the propellor will 'win' the argument, at least in its own terms.

  But what do YOU think?
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  Gig

  I consider it a natural thing for people, anyone in fact, to "need" to know they're right somehow. Black/white thinking is the preferred method because it's so simple, it's a yes or no question. So given that we all are weak and stupid somewhere in our lives, yes...I think we hold onto the black/white mindset. Insecure people over-use it, but it's just as un-natural (unhealty) to question yourself each and every time. To slip into auto-rejection mode when it doesn't neatly fit is a common if not daily practice. The ones who use it only where appropriate are the ones who are called balanced, well adjusted, mature, or any number of other (appealing) descriptions.

  LOL at your "walking into a propellor" comment...wins, but on it's own terms. Thanks for the thought and the laugh. I could use your help if you've got the time...skip down to "IT'S WORKING..SHE'S LISTENING" Please don't consider this a pop up ad!
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  William Penwell

  Its no use trying to reason with a Jdub. Like any fundamental religion, you will only get caught in their circular reasoning. Which mean that no one wins and you go away frustrated.

  Will
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  Introspection

  It's just an ego centered attitude isn't it? It's not really a question of accuracy, as if you have to either be totally sure or just throw your hands up in the air like you couldn't get through life without being right. This need to be right is really just a wanting to be somebody in disguise. (or just wanting to be) Actually, if you only acknowledge that your position is dependent on certain sets of information, that wouldn't be a problem. You are not making a black and white judgement of it being right or wrong, true or false when you know that the certainty is relative. Of course, all of that is only information, just thoughts. Who's the one having the thought?

  This attitude isn't really dependent on whether the person knows the truthfulness of their position is in question. Someone might very well just have a strong opinion, admit that it's an opinion, that it's just their own outlook and it's influenced by their life events, and then goes right ahead and tell it to the world through the internet as if that is somehow supposed to be very significant for everybody else out there. "I think this, I think that, blah blah blah.. No reason provided, I just thought you should know what I think." Now it would be one thing if you were asking a group of friends to hear you out because you just want to be heard, but more often than not there seems to be this very subtle implication there that my way is the way, even if only 5% of it is true. Of course, I gotta admit this is just my opinion, but it's as if that somehow legitimizes what I have to say. I don't know, maybe the bottom line is people in general is more interested in engaging in an egoic bitch fest than actually finding out what's true.

  Edited by - Introspection on 30 January 2003 17:8:39
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  Abaddon

  I think some of it depends on family background. My family of Dubs have always treated the dinner table like some sort of discussion-tennis court, with ideas being raucously, spiritedly, and unreservedly being batted to and fro. Sounds like WWIII, but everyone is friends when the meal is over.

  Howevere, I still feel a fundy or high-control background leads to very bad habits, unless you learn them and wean off them, which is a process I make no claims over. I think this is due in part to the subconcious inhibition over being wrong.

  Some of it is also, as you say Intro, "egoic bitch fest than actually finding out what's true".