Help! bro trying to convert grlfrnd-need honesty

by Bridgette 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • Bridgette
    Bridgette

    I hope some of you will remember me. I have not posted for a long while, but you all and our mutual struggles are never far from my heart.

    I have always asserted that if you want to be a witness, fine--GREAT!! I have never called for an abolishment of the religious corporation of our mutual pasts, but want for IT to be HONEST with itself, its adherents and ESPECIALLY those IT desperately seeks to convert.

    My brother has returned to the organization with a girlfriend in tow. They are quite serious with one another, even as he grows ever more serious about being a Jehovah's Witness. I feel that if he wishes to be a JW, fully cognizant as he is of all that entails, this is fine--for him. But I have just pleaded with him to be honest (up front--NOT progressive disclosure) with this girl (a Christian) about what will be expected of her--how her life will change if she follows him and becomes a JW. If she still wishes to be a Jehovah's Witness--great--more power to her. But I want her to make an informed decision. He has already grossly mislead her by quasi celebrating the holidays--something he has no intention of keeping up.

    Can anyone relate what they wish they had known UP FRONT about life/soul changes involved in becoming a JW? Also, this girl has an independent streak and thirst for knowledge--can anyone give me quotes about what the WT has said about the dangers of "Independent thinking"?

    Thanking you all in advance for input.

    Love,

    B.

  • cyrano
    cyrano

    *** QUALIFIED 1955 p.156 ***
    [Not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious , but shall, as the Bible says, 'believe all things,' all the things that The Watchtower brings out...

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1957 May 1 p.284 Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers ***

    We will realize that Jehovah knows what is going on in his organization, and if he is willing to permit it, who are we to insist it should be different? If we really have faith, we will know that if it is wrong he will straighten it out eventually, and we are far safer inside his organization even with these minor difficulties than we would be on the outside where only chaos and destruction await us.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1967 June 1 p.338 Move Ahead with Jehovah's Organization ***

    12 How will we put these four things into effect? First, study: We may think of study as hard work, as involving heavy research. But in Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to do that very thing, to help you who do not have so much time for this, these preparing the good material in The Watchtower and other publications of the Society. But you do not study enough? Take this suggestion: Often the very best and most beneficial studying you do is that done when you read a new Watchtower or Awake! or a new book with the joy of getting the new truths and a fresh view.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1973 August 1 p.460 Cultivating Friendship with God ***

    14 Yes, we should be deeply appreciative of all the fine spiritual food that "the faithful and discreet slave" class has been providing through The Watchtower, now for ninety-four years.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1981 February 15 p.19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***

    OUR VIEW OF THE "SLAVE"

    ... Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful . We should have confidence in the channel God is using.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.22 Exposing the Devil's Subtle Designs ***

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. 'You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,' Satan told Eve. 'You don't have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.' (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan's subtle design to infect God's people with this type of thinking.-2 Timothy 3:1, 13.

    21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. For example, God's organization has from time to time given warnings about listening to certain types of immoral and suggestive music, and about frequenting discos and other types of worldly dance halls where such music is played and people are known to engage in immoral conduct. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Yet certain ones have professed to know better. They have rebelled against such counsel and have done what is right in their own eyes. With what result? Very often they have become involved in sexual immorality and have suffered severe spiritual harm. But even if they have not been so affected, are they not reprehensible if others follow their example and suffer bad consequences?-Matthew 18:6.

    22 This fact cannot be overemphasized: We are in a war with superhuman foes, and we constantly need to be aware of this. Satan and his demons are real; they are not mere figments of the imagination. They are "the world rulers of this darkness," and we have a spiritual fight against them. (Ephesians 6:12) It is absolutely vital that we recognize their subtle designs and not allow ourselves to be overreached by them. Very appropriately, then, we will next consider how we can arm ourselves to fight against these wicked spirits.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.27 Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits ***

    Fight Against Independent Thinking

    ...Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous? 20 Such thinking is an evidence of pride.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1986 March 15 p.16 Allow No Place for the Devil! ***

    If you are counseled or even reproved for some wrong practice or attitude, this, too, may prove to be an ideal time for the Devil to prompt you to ask yourself if you are in the right organization. So keep humble.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1986 March 15 p.19 Allow No Place for the Devil! ***

    14 Finally, we might consider what the Society has published in the past on chronology. Some opposers claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are false prophets. These opponents say that dates have been set, but nothing has happened. Again we ask, What is the motive of these critics?

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 1986 April 1 p.31 Questions From Readers ***

    Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses . What do such beliefs include? That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah's sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a "faithful and discreet slave" upon earth today 'entrusted with all of Jesus' earthly interests,' which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses . (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ's foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15-12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward . (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ's Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present "great crowd" of Jesus' "other sheep."-John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Year Book 1988 p.100 Ireland ***

    However, the antipathy toward Jehovah's people and the resistance to their work was still deep-seated. Later that same year in a local Limerick newspaper, the following appeal was made to Catholic readers:

    "We appeal most earnestly to any person who may be accosted by representatives of the Society [Jehovah's Witnesses] to have nothing to do with their propaganda and to refuse firmly to enter into any discussions with them. Any copies of their publications which readers may have acquired should be destroyed immediately. So strongly does the Church wish us to shun their evil doctrines that any Catholic who reads publications of the Society leaves himself open to excommunication. Ireland's heritage of Faith, retained through centuries of persecution, is not to be bartered for a mess of Brooklyn pottage."

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower August 1, 2001 p. 14, par. 8 ***

    First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time" -- through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions -- we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge. -- Matthew 24:45.

    [Emphasis Added]

    *** Watchtower 2001 August 1 How to Make Your Advancement Manifest ***

    8 First, since oneness is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and the faithful and discreet slave.

    [Emphasis Added]

  • Bridgette
    Bridgette

    Thank you Cyrano. I appreciate especially how recently they've attacked independent thought--the longer I am away, the more I tend to think that they have probably softened a lot of their hard party lines--but I guess not. They are so afraid. "Now don't be trying to think for yourself--in fact, do not even mentally question us! Just read the stuff we put in front of you like good little kiddies".

    Chilling to reread some of this.

    B.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Put together an A4 page of the most stupid, of the most hardline, of the most hardhearted, of the most paranoid quotes of the watchtower - and give it to her - include some info on christmas.

    Do it before she's afraid to read 'apostate' material, and tell her as a prospective sister in law, you'll not have her lied to over such important matters in her life.

    paduan

  • jaded
    jaded

    Make sure that she realizes that this is not just another religion...not something that is only done for an hour on Sunday. This will be her LIFE. Everything will revolve around it. It will come first, even before her.

  • BeautifulGarbage
    BeautifulGarbage

    Hi Bridgette!

    Poster formerly known as "Andee" here. I remember you well. You left to have a baby if I remember correctly (and given my age, I COULD be wrong).

    Good luck informing your brother's girlfriend. She may have to experience it to believe it, because some of it is pretty unbelievable to those that have never been on the "inside".

    You might want to tell her that if her child ever needs a blood transfusion to save it's life, the WTS, the Congregation, and maybe even her "future husband", would rather see her child die than to receive the blood.

    Andee

  • Bridgette
    Bridgette

    Andee,

    Would you believe that I had totally forgotten the blood issue?!?!? Definitely something they play down before you immerse.

    Paduan, the compilation of WT quotes is a good idea. Just give her information straight from the horse's mouth.

    Thanks for the input.

    B.

  • david_10
    david_10

    Hello Bridgette!

    Andee said: Good luck informing your brother's girlfriend. She may have to experience it to believe it, because some of it is pretty unbelievable to those that have never been on the "inside".

    That statement is absolutely true and I've seen it happen time and again. The love-bombing combined with that infernal logic just naturally appeals to some people and they are lured in before they even realize what's happened to them. Do you think that your brother's girl friend has a vulnerable personality that is susceptible to cult-type conditioning? Even those who are seemingly independent thinkers can be very susceptible and if you suspect that this might be true in her case, you should be real careful about what you say or whether you should say anything at all. She is already being told to expect opposition and to treasure it as proof of God's blessing. Even by presenting unassailable facts and arguments, it's easy to do more harm than good. Unfortunately, some people have to learn things the hard way. I know, because I was one of them. Good luck.

    David

    Edited by - david_10 on 3 February 2003 22:40:10

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