A challenge to believers

by Half banana 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Half banana

  Nothing is ever fixed, laws change and religious myth evolves. No doubt the Habiru (Hebrew) forebears of the Jews when arriving in the Levantine highlands cherished their Stone age practices and sacred rituals. Child and human sacrifice was a grim Stone Age social mechanism to make for balance, loyalty and control within a tribe.There was no connection then with an almighty spirit, polytheism ruled the Hebrew mentality. Human sacrifice only came to an end when outlawed by the civilised Romans.

  It has to be understood that the Jews had no claim to any special privilege or divine favour any more than their neighbours did back then and no more than we could claim today for our chosen beliefs. The impoverished Hebrew speaking Bronze Age goat herders in Judea lived in a world driven by superstition and fatalistic belief in the gods including their holy warrior mascot Yahweh.
  

  Why are we still discussing their primitive beliefs as if it they are holy, as if ever they had any meaning for us or for mankind. Wake up people! the mythology of 2600 years ago has long been superseded and we arbitrate knowledge through evidence and questioning that evidence, no longer has superstition any place in choosing a path in life today-- if we are sensible.

  The challenge:

  If you believe the Bible to be holy, please demonstrate from evidence and logic why anyone today should know that something or anything is holy.
• 

  punkofnice

  Nana - Why are we still discussing their primitive tribal cult as if it ever had any meaning for us or for mankind.

  Because it's big money and control for those who know how to use it to scam people.

  They threaten hell or death if you don't believe their scam. They make weird claims based on their cherry picked verses. The bible is not a moral book and their god is a moral monster. It's just that those that scam the masses have convinced people it's all true. They have whitewashed the vile immoral parts of this collection of nonsense and either pretended they don't exist, mean something fluffy or that they were changed later, by their unchanging god (you couldn't make this stuff up).

  I have a big problem with god and communication skills. So many christian factions that all claim they have the correct interpretation of their holy book. I have a big problem with the people's group-think hive mind acceptance of supernatural claims with NO evidence. Or that they think that if it's written in their holy book that that in itself is evidence.

  If you believe the Bible to be holy, please demonstrate why anyone today should believe that something or anything is holy.

  Let's see the absence of answers to that.

  BTW. I have an invisible unicorn and a yeti in my loft. Why won't anyone believe that?
  
  
• 

  venus

  Situation is like Leo Tolstoy’s story of a man named, Pahom, who was obsessed by amassing more and more land, and in the process acquiring relentlessly more than enough only to fall to the ground, dead. His servant took a spade and dug a grave. He made it just long enough and just wide enough to match Pahom’s body and buried him. Here’s the title Tolstoy gave his story: “How Much Land Does a Man Need?” He ends this short story with this line: “Six feet from his head to his heels was all that man needed”.

  People know the essence of this story, still they repeat what Pahom did. Similarly, even a cursory look is enough to know that Bible doesn’t match the lofty personality of God, hence could be the work of puny humans. Still people would cling on to it.
• 

  punkofnice

  I mean, I get why people believe initially because I was fooled for many years. As a staunch believer I would be guilty of the fallacy of special pleading. IE. The universe had to have a creator but god didn't. Absurd nonsense.

  I had to admit to myself that I wasn't being intellectually honest once I started thinking critically about what evidence there was outside of the anecdotal, for god et al. I found NO evidence for a god despite all the logical fallacies and mental arguments from ignorance there was.

  Sagan's analogy of the Invisible Dragon springs readily to mind.
• 

  venus

  Hi punkofnice,

  Those who seek happiness would not find it because a happy person does not have thoughts about being happy or unhappy—he is always in the now fully focused in what he does—which is the key to happiness.

  
  

  Similarly, those who seek proof for God’s existence would not find it because they expect it to come from high-voltage theological/philosophical/scientific debates. But proof exists in what we see everyday which we make use of several times a day. For me, tree-seed mechanism that ensures food for us in all its varieties that take care of all our varying taste is the proof that God exists—because humans did not design it. In my garden there are some plants which would die if I don’t care for them which means not only a designer, but a tender caretaker is also needed for certain varieties of plants and trees. Suppose God withdraws this provision of tree-seed mechanism, we all would immediately cry for the reinstatement of this proof.
• 

  Giordano

  In my opinion Jesus or Yeshua (There is no J in the Hebrew alphabet, ) is running for the office of messiah.

  Like any political candidate you must check off all of the boxes. Miracles? You turn water into wine, you come from the line of David, you heal people (actors feigning a disease). You resurrect Lazarus (from his fake death). Whatever happened to Lazarus? he died ........ this time for real.

  You add in a little Buddhism to reshape the stern Orthodox Jewish religion. 'Do unto others' that sort of thing. After all you are operating in a place that is open to the Roman trade routes so you have a chance to learn about any number of things.

  If your Jesus......... you don't write anything down....... your followers don't write anything down......... it's all hearsay from that point forward.

  You rise from the dead with no separate neutral confirmation.
  

  You ascend to heaven and like Jehovah there is no more communication. Complete silence for the past 2000 years. But even silence can be loud.

  What happens when there is a protracted period of silence? Interpretations abound....say hello to the Holy Roman Catholic church. Then centuries later the Protestant reformation.

  In the 19th century the wacky religious movements start up anew. The Amish arrive in the US, The Shakers blossom, the Mormons, Christian Scientists, the WTBTS ...end of days religions. Filled with murky hopes and desires and a large portion of foolishness thrown into the mix.

  One church sign summed it all up.

  Morning Service: Jesus walks on water.

  Evening Service: Searching for Jesus.
• 

  punkofnice

  I don't subscribe to the 'I don't understand it, therefore God'.

  The god of the gaps doesn't work for me.

  Venus. I think you're tripping yourself up with wordy stuff that sounds all philosophical and profound, but is actually all meaningless. Apologies if I miss understand.
• 

  blownaway

  I am a 4th gen JW or was when I left in the mid 90s. I remember growing up in the cult its hard to learn critical thinking when you have not known it. Also we did not have the internet or the thousands of sites to show us the history. We had very limited places to look. Randy Waters was one of the first to have a site of former witnesses. Now its easy to jump on youtube and find history videos of the cult.
  
• 

  Vidiot

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0

  Sorry, couldn't resist.
• 

  smiddy3

  Religion is a big money making goldmine even in this 21st Century

  Look at all the Tele-Avangelist`s that exist around the world.

  looking at Christendom alone their are over 40,000 Christian sects alone all claiming to be the "truth"

  how many millions believe in a God that is not related to Christianity ? Probably half the population .