Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession
by ttdtt 9 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Mephis
This will bounce straight back up to a higher court (again). The priest has been granted freedom to testify on the conversation by the penitent herself, he shouldn't complain if he is found in contempt of court. (eg as happened to a Catholic priest who refused to testify when given permission by another penitent in this Massachusetts case from 30 years ago: http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/388/388mass128.html )
Feel for the survivor seeing the court case drag on so long.
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cha ching
"But, on the stand today, Father Bayhi told a Judge he can’t even confirm whether someone even came to confession. That’s just how sacred it is. He added no one would trust priests if confessions were public."
He sounds so proud of himself.......
When is it going to become more important to protect the victim instead of the abuser?
Is religion really that more important? Hmm?
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smiddy
If a priest hears a confession of someone committing a murder , he`s not bound to report this to the police ?
If that is still the case then obviously that law needs to be changed .The principle of the church being a sanctuary is so outdated , if it still applies ,it should be adjusted to our modern times.
Why aren`t the Jehovah`s Witnesses challenged more when they claim Clergy Penintent as a reason for not providing documents held by them that the law requires and asks for.?
The official stand of the Jehovah`s Witnesses is , they do not have a Clergy Class within their religion , so why do they get away with invoking this clause..?
smiddy
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karter
The J.W's have a big problem with'' ecclesiastical privilege''. it is between the clergy and the person confessing
when they form a judicial committee it may well null in-void the ecclesiastical privilege as more than the person they confessed to is told about the confession.
Karter.
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Mephis
It really depends on the specific laws Smiddy and where you're talking about.
General answer to your last question though is that (in common law democracies) any relevant law/s will be interpreted as applying to all religions. So a lack of a 'formal' clergy isn't a barrier to invoking the privilege where it is recognised. How it gets applied is another thing altogether and depends on precise wording of the law/s.
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jhine
The trouble is as the priest says if someone knows that the conversation /confession will be reported to police , or used against them in a trial , they will simply not confess .
It is true that people only talk to clergy because they know that the conversations are private . At least the priest can try to get the person to confess to the police , but if offenders stop talking to priests that can't happen .
It does seem madness that a priest can hear about a most awful crime and have to keep quiet , but forcing priests to disclose confessions won't help because people just won't go to confession .
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Mephis
There's a difference between a confession and a child reporting rape though. And what's currently happening is children reporting being raped or sexually assaulted are being treated as giving a confession by some religions in order to claim an exemption from reporting. That's clearly all shades of wrong.
In the UK, there is no clergy/penitent privilege recognised as a right. People still go to confession. Judges are granted discretion on deciding whether or not such evidence should be called. Most churches with a trained clergy have procedures to warn people that there may be circumstances where a conversation may not be kept confidential if they work in jurisdictions where this can happen. Even JWs in some countries have been warned by letter from the platform that elders may be required to disclose some information to secular authorities.
Really, there should be no excuse for an adult in a position of authority not to report abuse of a child or a vulnerable adult (legally defined as needing assistance to safeguard themselves) to safeguarding authorities. It really shouldn't be difficult to find systems and procedures to do that.
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jhine
Hi Mephis , l understand what you are saying and in fact l have posted a couple of times about the procedures to warn people that a conversation may not be kept private . My church , has this procedure in place . I have argued that the WT could adopt a similar system ..
The thing is the person talking to the , say vicar , is warned that the conversation may have to be reported because they might then decide not to continue . Sometimes victims are not ready to " go public " for a variety of reasons , which should be acknowledged .
This whole situation is complicated and there probably is no " one size fits all " answer that pleases everyone . What we all do agree on is that the WT does need to really change it's policies which are geared only toward protecting the org and and the victim .
Jan
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Mephis
Hi Jan. I know some Anglican vicars also use a formula to establish limits too. I know I used a similar formula as a teacher when asked by a child, "can you keep a secret?" or something like that. Clergy/penitent privilege is confidentiality in common law (outside the US anyways..), and sometimes confidentiality isn't the most important thing.
It is complex as you say, and reporting laws are blunt tools which represent a failure of adults to protect children for too long and in too many cases. You're right, there's not going to be a perfect solution. No-one wants to drag a survivor through a legal process, at the same time how does one also ensure they are safe from further abuse and other children are not at risk? There is more leeway with adult survivors for that to be a matter for the survivor, but for children and vulnerable adults then there may only be that one opportunity and there may not be a responsible adult able to act otherwise.
I know some believers will strongly disagree, but I personally don't feel an offender's ability to confess counts for much if children are still at risk. Sadly, if spiritual support on its own worked well for pedophiles, we wouldn't be dealing with so many cases within religions. This may be a case where secular society will have to cut the Gordian knot on this for religions. It will be interesting to see what recommendations come out of the Australian Commission and the Goddard Inquiry for how best to deal with this.