I was lurking on the Pure Language board and came across a post about 607 verses 586/587. No one really gave a good defense of it and before it could really get going, they closed the thread. Paranoid?
Puzzled and confused about 607 BC!
Im currently preparing a talk which is about Ezekiel chapter 4 and the "day for a year - 390 days " prophesy, which , according to the WT CD, is 390 years , running from the founding of Israel in 997 B.C.E. to the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
Now here is where I am getting confused and where I am at the moment, I dont have access to my WT CD or books...
I have often been told by people not in the truth that 607 BC is not the correct date for the destruction of Jerusalem, that 587(?) BC is. Now I looked up 607BC in a search engine, and the only references to it anywhere, are apostate sites saying why its wrong, but no historical sites saying its right. Now since this is such an important turning point in history, and the basis for much of our prophetic understanding, I want to know who is right!
BUT! What I dont get is, that if its wrong, then how come the founding of Israel IS 997BC according to many sites that I checked on, so 390 years - 997 = 607 !
So basically what I am asking is, is there an article somewhere, or something in the Insight book, which gives detailed information on the destruction of Jerusalem and can clarify this 607 or 587 controversy? Cos what I dont get is, why we get a different date from every other historian in the world, yet our date of 607 DOES tie up correctly when examined with this prophesy that I am working on. If that makes sense?
So if someone has access to the CD and could have a quick look for me, I'd appreciate that! I should be able to have a look myself, tommorow night, but I'd like to know before, if anyone has the answer?
----------------------------------------------
James,
This is a topic that has been beaten into the ground on other forums and caused more controversy than it is worth.
I don't have the CD with me at work, but I know the Society has firmly established the 607 date through prophecy, especially the 70 year desolation form 607 to 537. The Bible and archaeology firmly agree on the dates of 539 and 537 for the fall of Babylon and initial restoration to Israel. Archaeologist and historians support 587 for the fall of Jerusalem, but we know those are inexact sciences. We rely on Bible chronology which points to 607 as the fall of Jerusalem and the beginning of the Gentile Times.
----------------------------------------------
Well everything would certainly make a lot more sense if it was 607BC, I was jsut wondering if there is any archaelogical evidence for it. Wherabouts would be the best place to search for info on the societies CD? Does the Insign book cover it?
--------------------------------------------
I have done much research on this topic.
After researching many encyclopedias and Bible commentaries, I found that scholars cannot agree on when the Fall of Jerusalem happened. Some say 587 BCE, others say 586 BCE, I found a source that put the Fall at 595 BCE, and another said 605 BCE. That was the closest I got to the 607 BCE date. So, who are we to believe here?
Now comparing historical data with biblical prophecy we can come to a logical conclusion. Obviously if we have a choice on whom to believe, what will it be: Jehovah or scholars? It’s not even close.
If we where to take the dates of 587/586 and compare them to biblical prophesy, being the 70 year desolation of Jerusalem, then we find that these dates would be useless in that these are dead ends, going nowhere.
So how did the Faithful and Discreet Slave arrive at 607 BCE as the Fall of Jerusalem?
They use pivotal dates to calculate chronology. Insight books has a good explanation of pivotal dates. One pivotal date is October of 539 BCE for the fall of Babylon in the hands of Cyrus’ army.
We know that Jeremiah (25:8,9) predicted that the Babylonian would destroy Jerusalem and make the city a land of desolation. The 70 years of desolation expires when Cyrus released the Jews and they returned to Jerusalem according to Ezra.
Historians accept that Cyrus conquered Babylon in October 539 B.C.E. and that Cyrus first regnal year began in the
spring of 538 B.C.E. If Cyrus decree (to allow the Jews to return to their homeland) came late in his first regnal year, the Jews could easily be back in their homeland by the seventh month (Tishri) as Ezra 3:1 says; this would be October 537 B.C.E.
Hence, counting back 70 years from when the Jews returned to their homeland in 537 B.C.E., we arrive at 607 B.C.E. for the date when Nebuchadnezzar, in his 18th regnal year, destroyed Jerusalem
So what about all these opposers of the organization that try to push the 587/586 dates on our faces?
Well as Witnesses of Jehovah we know that humans are not to be trusted and that historical data can be manipulated. Certainly we can see how wise Satan is, in trying to confuse us with dates and making us doubt in the veracity of Bible chronology.
What it boils down to is trusting Jehovah and his inspired word.
------------------------------------------
besides.. who cares anyway?
christ came right on time.. the 2nd fall of Jerusalem came just as predicted.. everything worked out fine.. what does it matter any more?
work backwards: take the dates we know to be true and correct.. Christ's arrival and baptism for instance.. and count backwards!
'Faith is not a possession of all people..' you have to TRUST Jehovah and the FDS.
Besides.. why look to scientist to draw the right conclusions from their digging up the past? Especially on timing! If you believe everything they 'proved' then dinasaurs roamed the earth MILLIONS of years ago, and we come from prehistoric cave men who resembled beasts that grunted to one another, also millions of years ago!
Sorry but this is really beating a dead horse.. don't you think?
--------------------------------------------
I think that Chronology article in Insight covers that question well.
I don't put that much of trust into archealogy, especially when they speak about dates. Check out the creation book on page 96 to the end of that chapter under subheading What About the Dates?.
James, I just can't get what's your question is. But let's all remember that our faith and trust into God's Word is not based on human's achievments. What if Sennacherib's (sp?) palace was not found? Would we belive that there WAS Sennacherib, and bible record is true? Or we'd keep on looking for scientists?
So, these who lived long time ago, before Sennacherib's palace was found, before people and scientists were speaking about these dates... How could these people trust the bible?
Let's bear in mind, that even if all scientists in this world would say in one voice: there is no God, this'd mean absolutely nothing. Would our faith in Jehovah as Creator been shaken in such situation?
YB, Igor.
------------------------------------
It's very important to have trust in the Bible, even if it appears to contradict secular archeology. OTOH, it's also important to make sure that we can prove what we believe from the bible, as opposed to merely because it is the teaching of the F&DS. After all, people we meet in the field ministry are not likely to be swayed by the F&DS, but many of them do respect the scriptures.
I think miti provided an excellent explanation. Thank you, miti.
--------------------------------
Thanks!
Thank you very much everyone! Miti, thanks , you put my mind at rest!
I was just wondering if there was any particular reason, other than prophetic calculations that cause the society to use 607, cos we know that some issues in our belief go completly against what the worlds religions and philosophies do, but when thats the case, we always have concrete reasons for doing so, and I just wondered if perhaps the society knew somthing other historians didnt (like info on a tablet or scroll somewhere)... but anyway, like I said, the Bible reading I am working on, works perfectly well when subtracting 390 years from 997 BCE, and in other cases to! But I was just wondering if we are the only ones to use that date.
I guess the "bible historians" just scratch around in the dirt and do all their carbon dating malarky, but dont check the prophesies or have the understanding for certain dates! And as already stated - some scientiests do are out in their calculations - by a few billion years! Even stuff from proffesional bible scholars is suspicios - I was on a site today which gave the exact dates for Adams (and later Eves) creation... which I dont see how any human can possible know or even begin to calculate, since the time periods within the creative days are not specified, and we dont know how long Adam was alone before Eve was created... so I guess they just make some of it up as they go along, if they dont know for sure!
Sorry if I have caused controversy - I just wanted to clarify this for myself so that I would feel comfortable giving my talk and using these dates, and also because I have been given this objection before, and I had no idea how to answer, cos I wasnt sure what the position was regarding external evidence, etc... thanks for your help guys!
------------------------------
Since the matter has been settled time to close the thread thanks for the comments.