Forgiveness of Sin

by Undecided 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Hi All,

    I was just wondering about the ransom and what you think of it. Was the death of Jesus for the purpose of God being able to forgive Adams sin for all of mankind? Ok, so Adams sin doesn't matter anymore because Jesus death covered it. Now the question, if you sin after that is covered, are you in the same situation of Adam and all your offspring will inherit sin again, or will he just kill you this time? IF he can forgive all us, why not Adam in the first place and have saved all the suffering and death, including his son? Something doesn't add up!

    What about the supposed perfect new earth and perfect humans? Will any of those make mistakes? If they do will they just die off immediately? The devil is supposed to be gone by then and not be here to cause trouble. Why did God let him do that in the garden of Eden if he can be such a source of trouble?

    The stories don't really make any sense unless you let your mind go blank.

    Ken P.

  • gumby
    gumby
    Was the death of Jesus for the purpose of God being able to forgive Adams sin for all of mankind?

    Evidently not because Christians have been dying and suffering ever since he died.

    The bible says the wages sin pays is death but the gift god gives is everlasting life through Jesus. The only hang up is ......he never made true on his promise.Even though the book of Romans plainly teaches our sins have been washed clean.......we still suffer the effect from it and we die.

    This is a plain contradiction and shows the wishful thinking of religious men.

    Gumby

  • topanga
    topanga

    will people really live forever, i thought god cut mans lifespan to 70 or 80 because the longer they lived the more trouble they caused.

    they seemed to keep on going bad he seemed to think this was a good way to curb it. i think it was in genesis...

  • gumby
    gumby

    i thought god cut mans lifespan to 70 or 80 because the longer they lived the more trouble they caused.

    I don't know to many who WANT to live past 70 or 80....unless their health is good.

  • gsx1138
    gsx1138
    they seemed to keep on going bad he seemed to think this was a good way to curb it. i think it was in genesis...

    Sounds to me like God is pretty incompetent. He couldn't get it right the first two times and now he has too shorten our lifespan because he obviously doesn't know what to do. If the best he could do for a sacrifice for all mankind for eternity was have his son be on earth for 30 years then that is pretty damn pathetic.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Undecided, Gumby, others who have posted to this thread, I'm with you on the lack of continuity in the nature of God represented by this "sacrifice" He required of Jesus to get us into a state where he could accept us - creations of is own doing.

    This barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, to me represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive, a philosophy unworthy of the enlightened age of science and truth in which we now live. I think that such beliefs are utterly repulsive to the celestial beings and the divine rulers who serve and reign in the universes. It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath.

    The Hebrews believed that "without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin." They had not found deliverance from the old and pagan idea that the Gods could not be appeased except by the sight of blood, though Moses did make a distinct advance when he forbade human sacrifices and substituted therefor, in the primitive minds of his childlike Bedouin followers, the ceremonial sacrifice of animals.

    What a travesty upon the infinite character of God! this teaching that his fatherly heart in all its austere coldness and hardness was so untouched by the misfortunes and sorrows of his creatures that his tender mercies were not forthcoming until he saw his blameless Son bleeding and dying upon the cross of Calvary!

    This teaching presuposes an absence of unity in the mind of diety: that the Love & Mercy of God is incompatible with the Justice of God; that God experiences a species of internal civil war within his makeup. And so, in order to resolve his warring internal natures, He elaborates the atonement doctrine in order comport these conflicting elements of his nature. I do not believe there is any such conflict in the nature of God. In designing such a barbaric conception of God, man has indeed recreated Him in man's image, complete with the primitive belief in the necessity of spilling blood before forgiveness is forthcoming.

    I don't buy it. I believe forgiveness is ours before we even think to ask for it. And it is ours without the need for the innocent blood of someone else to first be spilt. How could it be otherwise with a God that is "One" God, undivided by conflicting demands made upon him by conflicting elements within his own nature?

    Is this not so?

    francois

  • dedalus
    dedalus

    Pretty confusing stuff. Maybe God should kill some more people, just to be on the safe side.

    Dedalus

  • gumby
    gumby
    This barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, to me represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive

    Francois,

    Don't you wonder where in the hell people through history and the many beliefs there are...........come up with this shit! I mean when you look at all ther greek, babylonian, egyptian, beliefs......all of them were out of any reality.

    If people are going to make a God for themselves and adopt a way to worship him......why in the hell can they do it normal like? Blood and killing is always involved......even with Christianity.

    No wonder people like Harry potter and other fairy tales......at least they ADMIT....that they are fairy tales.....and they have a good ending

    Gumby

  • Francois
    Francois

    Does boggle the mind, doesn't it? When left up to his own devices, man does seem to invent his gods to be reflections of himself. And, too, to be characterized by fear. At first, Gods were found in lightening, volcanoes, tornadoes, violent acts of nature. So primitive man naturally enough felt like it would be a good idea to calm these deities down a bit with a virgin or two.

    Then anything else early man didn't understand was god or of god. The blooming of flowers, orgasm, art, you name it and so then all these things were god's things. It's one reason why sex has been such a no-no. They didn't understand where that feeling of orgasm came from but anything that good must have come from god. And must therefore be reserved to Him and for him after some special ceremony.

    It's easy to see how all this evolved if you stop and think of who was doing the thinking, about what, and when. But the atonement doctrine is actually an attack on the free-willness of God, a denial of the unity of God, and an insult upon his matchless nature. We'b be better off worshipping rocks as attributing those characteristics to God.

    francois

  • gumby
    gumby
    an attack on the free-willness of God (the atonment)

    Never looked at it that way but it's true. It forces God to HAVE to sacrafice his ONLY son. There is no other way according to the bible. He was picked for the job BEFORE man was created.....according to modern theology.

    Why didn't he snuff out Adam and Eve just like he did other rebels? He let's these two live......and makes their offspring suffer . What a bunch of shit! I get mad just typing this.

    You speak of God. I never thought I see the day when I would see him as a higher power instead of my father who really loves me, sees me, cares for me. A higher power is OK.....but I sure miss a skydaddy.

    Gumby

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